From nobody Thu Jun 23 16:15:04 2022 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 919EE862F71 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2022 16:15:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Received: from www121.sakura.ne.jp (www121.sakura.ne.jp [153.125.133.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4LTQMj3V23z53CC; Thu, 23 Jun 2022 16:15:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Received: from kalamity.joker.local (123-1-85-147.area1b.commufa.jp [123.1.85.147]) (authenticated bits=0) by www121.sakura.ne.jp (8.16.1/8.16.1/[SAKURA-WEB]/20201212) with ESMTPA id 25NGF4n3081926; Fri, 24 Jun 2022 01:15:05 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2022 01:15:04 +0900 From: Tomoaki AOKI To: Warner Losh Cc: Eugene Grosbein , Steve Kargl , Stefan Blachmann , Emmanuel Vadot , Ed Maste , Poul-Henning Kamp , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Reasons for keeping sc(4) and libvgl ? Message-Id: <20220624011504.ab5591564ee40d5f0310bebd@dec.sakura.ne.jp> In-Reply-To: References: <20211126160454.3eb827365a02103169ab9adc@bidouilliste.com> <20220621201924.e9b96876c947140ac1f3b7a4@bidouilliste.com> <3d09c86a-9840-f8bf-4725-8098d958a01d@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl> <202206211901.25LJ1uBd067376@critter.freebsd.dk> <20220622044923.6e2fac81c1e8205872d9de11@bidouilliste.com> <6b7997d6-f8ed-c4e4-91eb-da9b20eb0a14@grosbein.net> <8d6ae56e-9265-6b2e-c966-1c51f00f6c88@grosbein.net> Organization: Junchoon corps X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.33; amd64-portbld-freebsd13.0) List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4LTQMj3V23z53CC X-Spamd-Bar: + Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp has no SPF policy when checking 153.125.133.21) smtp.mailfrom=junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.41 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.986]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[8]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[123.1.85.147:received]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7684, ipnet:153.125.128.0/18, country:JP]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.992]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sakura.ne.jp]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.99)[0.987]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-hackers]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[grosbein.net,troutmask.apl.washington.edu,gmail.com,bidouilliste.com,freebsd.org,phk.freebsd.dk]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On Thu, 23 Jun 2022 09:44:28 -0600 Warner Losh wrote: > On Thu, Jun 23, 2022 at 9:37 AM Eugene Grosbein wrote: > > > 23.06.2022 22:26, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > > Giant is being removed entirely, and with it all straggler drivers that > > aren't converted by the removal date. > > > There's no fixed date for this, at the present time, but I'm about to > > commit changes that make it impossible > > > for new code to reference Giant. Having Giant, at all, causes slow downs > > elsewhere in the system, which > > > is why we're pushing to remove it entirely. > > > > Why is it better to lose working code then to keep it "slow"? > > > > Supporting Giant, at all, means creating extra taskqueues, processes, etc. > It means extra checks in > all the code paths since Giant is so 'special'. To do this just to support > an obsolete console seems to > many to be an unwise tradeoff once everything else is in order. Especially > since there have been years > for people that care about the problems to arrange solutions. > > We are still some time away from everything else eliminating Giant, so > there's still time to get things > fixed. However, the increasingly obscure nature of the problems and/or > their diminished relevancy > to the project means that absent code showing up (either from the hobbyist > community or from > funded work), the problems will remain because the limited resources of > those working on the > project aren't ample enough for them to be solved. If they are important to > you, and nobody > else is working on them, now is your chance. Ideally, there'd be enough > time and people to > solve all the problems, but there is not. > > Warner Is it possible / planned to make atkbd and psm GIANT-free? They shouldn't go away, as at least some notebooks implements their keyboards / pointing devices attached with them, not USB. They're clearly show-stoppers, I think. -- Tomoaki AOKI