From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 8 17:53:40 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F3E2106566C for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2010 17:53:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bruce@cran.org.uk) Received: from muon.cran.org.uk (muon.cran.org.uk [IPv6:2a01:348:0:15:5d59:5c40:0:1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 997208FC0A for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2010 17:53:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from muon.cran.org.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by muon.cran.org.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F616E7208; Mon, 8 Nov 2010 17:53:38 +0000 (GMT) Received: from unknown (client-82-26-212-122.pete.adsl.virginmedia.com [82.26.212.122]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by muon.cran.org.uk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Mon, 8 Nov 2010 17:53:37 +0000 (GMT) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 17:53:34 +0000 From: Bruce Cran To: Chad Perrin Message-ID: <20101108175334.00003efb@unknown> In-Reply-To: <20101108163220.GB21595@guilt.hydra> References: <20101106200239.00004b64@unknown> <20101106203213.GC13095@guilt.hydra> <20101106225446.GC67566@libertas.local.camdensoftware.com> <20101107101750.00006bd2@unknown> <20101107174106.GB77433@libertas.local.camdensoftware.com> <20101107185845.66745df2.freebsd@edvax.de> <20101107205122.GE17565@guilt.hydra> <20101107220729.000048f6@unknown> <20101108061723.GC18990@guilt.hydra> <20101108094301.00007cc7@unknown> <20101108163220.GB21595@guilt.hydra> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.6 (GTK+ 2.16.6; i586-pc-mingw32msvc) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Tips for installing windows and freeBSD both.. anyone?? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2010 17:53:40 -0000 On Mon, 8 Nov 2010 09:32:20 -0700 Chad Perrin wrote: > You probably found it "inefficient" because you did not bother to gain > sufficient familiarity with it to enjoy the efficiencies it provided. > Seriously. In my experience, development on MS Windows with clicky > GUI tools like Visual Studio only seems more efficient when doing > things that are very well-worn paths to very uninteresting > destinations for people who have never bothered to learn a better > way. A well-configured Vim provides a substantial efficiency boost > for the competent user that dwarfs the dubious benefits of things > like Intellisense, for instance. If you're clicking lots you're doing something wrong :) I think the key thing is "well-configured". I've found that far too many users have poorly-configured systems that require them to drop to a terminal and type commands when they want to run builds, find where something's defined etc. That involves find, grep etc. which is far less efficient than clicking the (the built-in) "Go to definition" command or hitting the shortcut key within an IDE; I know the same can be done in vim by defining macros for building, running ctags/cscope etc. I'm not convinced about IntelliSense either, really. At one job I found people dependended totally on it, and complained when it broke. I find I use it as a productivity enhancement when I know roughly what parameters a function takes but can't remember the ordering - it's more useful when you have a huge framework like Java or .NET, or an overly complex API like WinAPI (e.g. CreateFile). Too many people _do_ depend on it though, which I think introduces an inefficiency in their work. In terms of efficient use of Visual Studio it takes time to learn and become a competent user: for example I hardly ever use the menus since they're so slow to access. I hardly leave the keyboard and hate watching people waste time for example clicking Build, moving to the Build Solution entry and clicking when I could have done it in a fraction of the time using Ctrl-Shift-B. I know vim, with suitable plugins and macros, can be made to be more efficient than Visual Studio since it doesn't require ever using the mouse but the upfront investment in time to learn and configure it is something I've never done, mainly because I've always had more important things to learn and the "inefficiencies" of GUI editors don't really worry me. -- Bruce Cran