From owner-freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Apr 8 12:41:12 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [8.8.178.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E294BFEF for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2013 12:41:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bdrewery@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206c::16:87]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6FF0B48 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2013 12:41:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.6/8.14.6) with ESMTP id r38CfCed079496 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2013 12:41:12 GMT (envelope-from bdrewery@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from bdrewery@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.6/8.14.6/Submit) id r38CfCDv079487 for freebsd-ports@freebsd.org; Mon, 8 Apr 2013 12:41:12 GMT (envelope-from bdrewery) Received: (qmail 7607 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2013 07:41:10 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO ?10.10.0.24?) (freebsd@shatow.net@10.10.0.24) by sweb.xzibition.com with ESMTPA; 8 Apr 2013 07:41:10 -0500 Message-ID: <5162BAE3.6080202@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2013 07:41:07 -0500 From: Bryan Drewery Organization: FreeBSD User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130328 Thunderbird/17.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Simmons Subject: Re: Growing list of required(ish) ports References: <51622F44.3050604@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.1 OpenPGP: id=3C9B0CF9; url=http://www.shatow.net/bryan/bryan.asc Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="----enig2XPLVQLLKBVMIHWMEKKKC" Cc: Kevin Oberman , Bryan Drewery , freebsd-ports , Kimmo Paasiala X-BeenThere: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting software to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2013 12:41:12 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) ------enig2XPLVQLLKBVMIHWMEKKKC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 4/8/2013 1:55 AM, Robert Simmons wrote: > On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 1:11 AM, Kevin Oberman wro= te: >> On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 8:34 PM, Kimmo Paasiala wr= ote: >>> >>> On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 6:19 AM, Robert Simmons >>> wrote: >>>> On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 10:45 PM, Bryan Drewery >>>> wrote: >>>>> On 4/7/2013 8:47 PM, Robert Simmons wrote: >>>>>> Are there plans to get the following ports moved into HEAD? >>>>>> >>>>>> 1) ports-mgmt/pkg >>>>>> >>>>>> 2) ports-mgmt/dialog4ports >>>>>> >>>>>> 3) ports-mgmt/portaudit >>>>>> >>>>>> 4) ports-mgmt/portmaster >>>>>> >>>>>> It seems to me like these belong in the base system. >>>>> >>>>> On the contrary, the idea is that more and more should come *out of= >>>>> base* and into ports. Base is very static and stuck in time. By mov= ing >>>>> these things into ports, you are able to get updates much simpler. = No >>>>> need for an errata or security advisory or release. Just updating w= ith >>>>> portmaster/pkg upgrade. >>>> >>>> I understand where you're coming from, but perhaps there needs to be= >>>> movement in both directions. >>>> >>>> I may be way off the mark here, but I'd love to spark a discussion >>>> about this. I think that in general things that are directly FreeBS= D >>>> projects belong in base. Examples would be pkgng, and making >>>> dialog4ports a switch in dialog(1). Essentially, code that does not= >>>> have an upstream should be in base. >>>> >>>> On the other hand, there are a number of things that I think should = be >>>> pulled out of base. Some already have ports, and others would need >>>> ports created. Examples of things to pull out of base are OpenSSL, >>>> Heimdal, OpenSSH, PF, ntpd, ipfilter, bind, sendmail, and others. >>>> Code that is typically way behind the upstream project basically. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> portaudit is not needed with pkg, just use 'pkg audit'. >>>> >>>> I had missed that. Thanks! >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, is there a reason why dialog4ports's functionality wasn't ad= ded >>>>>> to dialog(1) as a switch? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Bryan Drewery >>>>> bdrewery@freenode/EFNet >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> I think Bryan already explained the reasons why pkg should not be in >>> base, it's an external tool that is not strictly required to get a ba= re >>> >>> bones FreeBSD system up and running. Including it in base you create >>> yet another maintainance burden and would slow down the development o= f >>> the ports/packages management tools. >>> >>> -Kimmo >> >> >> What people seem to miss is that putting tools into the base system >> strangles the tools. Look at the difficulty we have seen in updating >> openssl. perl was removed from base for exactly that reason. Once some= thing >> is in base, it usually can only be updated on major releases and even= then >> it can be very complicated. That is a problem for any dynamically chan= ging >> tool. >> >> I would love to see BIND removed from base, but most of the things yo= u >> listed really are hard to remove. I know that I don't want to try brin= ging >> up a new install of FreeBSD on a remote system without OpenSSH and tha= t >=20 > OpenSSH is the only one that doesn't follow the same pattern. It > seems that the port of it has been abandoned going on 2 years. It is > lagging far far behind 9-stable which looks like DES bumped to 6.1 and > HEAD has been bumped to 6.2p1. This is my fault. I am working on updating it to 6.2 for after the freeze= =2E >=20 >> pulls in openssl. In the case of many tools, it really turns into a >> bikeshed. But i can see no reason to add any of the new packaging tool= s >> simply because it is critical that updates be possible far more often= than >> is possible for the base system. >> -- >> R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer >> E-mail: rkoberman@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " >=20 --=20 Regards, Bryan Drewery bdrewery@freenode/EFNet ------enig2XPLVQLLKBVMIHWMEKKKC Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJRYrrjAAoJEG54KsA8mwz5uEMQAKkPeGy5N0V5/beBVnYYqnIB EsLOTthUQ27GMj6Gi0JhxzR7rTx80jQPTk5S5lclJirswSdPlioNfrgNiLD+oD1s oHcUwn8vedySLTHAhpD0IoMeiogE7vaN4g2deQNtTGIyj8g9fwrIus8vlt2je3P8 fGbu5qfeMLOpFQz81zmBwVJQcdbGJRSlMlYP2CXE94ZPQ8gZ3iYtNPQMDTa19wPl qQovTAezLIPz1l3rxXHhVz5Q8oxl+UrNXrkuw7D9wMM5Y6cOlQ4/l7iaPfEeVbb/ SHTySocouWibFj3WGY1ebT95qaFBPV63BKI5xsVEPZtmh9C85lQ2rjfB2hTHaT5Z 7b+CudeAh4G4+XBBwepoavzAnl8xDSeQiDt8SHali/+Q24LmIvGLmQJg2+dm8xHm mZmwvf6t3aUAImntB9WQuvWo0tnlBWa3YFVIbP+lJY8UP5xS55iHfHofJ293mkid CXz5/9ewwSOXUS2Y4Ax+WJbJkOCICWvcyD5arFZxq1sUaPPLi2nTbiszf/AGqrIw YZ0qSHIE7LLXiNs2GwkmbNiJj5f87nt84pzWW4+pXJAEMGGDlCaIpoRiJlceRRik x81jUIccHZF/MjLjA4Fp4cnBTORTimiGZT8Tw3xVbSsHwIvikmvOQhxdhcm3/quO 626erqU0a5ld+NmbDuos =1K+K -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------enig2XPLVQLLKBVMIHWMEKKKC--