Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 11:35:21 -0700 From: Chris <bsd-lists@BSDforge.com> To: Daniel Ebdrup Jensen <debdrup@freebsd.org> Cc: FreeBSD Hackers <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Ars Technica article on FreeBSD new user experience Message-ID: <24a4443491ad63fc0f607d62d6fe6b0b@udns.ultimatedns.net> In-Reply-To: <CAJEDNshRdEC6gwPzusuV%2BmUkTousH8i-5QwYFzejno%2B0Xn%2BKvQ@mail.gmail.com>
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On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 15:26:01 +0200 Daniel Ebdrup Jensen debdrup@freebsd=2Eorg= said > On 4/12/20, Joe Berner <stackyjoe@gmail=2Ecom> wrote: > > My 2 cents: > > > > 1) Make video driver detection a bit more straightforward=2E Or at least = make > > it dead simple to figure out which you need to install to get things > > working=2E I still need 2 or 3 tries with pkg install -f after major driv= er > > upgrades to get X server working correctly again with all the periphera= ls=2E > > > > 2) A wifi tool that's easier to use=2E wpa_supplicant is fine for those > > already very comfortable with command line stuff, but for unix newbies = it's > > very intimidating=2E wpa_cli is better but still too complicated=2E An > > interactive CLI tool that lists the SSIDs, lets you pick one, and then > > progressively fill out the required info would help a lot=2E I remember > > finding comments on the forums saying "just plug it in to ethernet to g= et > > set up" and that's very inconvenient if not infeasible for a lot of hom= e > > set ups=2E > > > > 3) The horrible beeping=2E A newbie who starts out is likely to open up v= i on > > rc=2Econf (or whatever) and be greeted by a sequence of earsplitting syst= em > > beeps as they learn that vi is not vim and some of the things they are = used > > to do not work=2E Them not working is fine, but the beeping feels like a = way > > for the system to mock your failure, and quickly goes from annoying to > > enraging=2E Years later I still remember this! > > > > I don't think a Xorg + GUI are necessary on a default install, but make= it > > dead simple for a beginner (say, someone who doesn't know to do pkg sea= rch > > $X | less ) to get it set up=2E > > > > Joe > [snip] >=20 > I mentioned this elsewhere in the thread, but video driver detection > can be solved with devmatch(8) for which there is an open issue [1] > that needs help, to add support for radeonkms and amdgpu, and > eventually vboxgfx and vmwgfx for virtualbox and vmware respectively, > plus nouveau if/when that lands and likely others (for example, > rockchip/videocore/et cetera drivers for ARM SBCs/systems) in the > future, as the DRM stack keeps getting bigger and bigger upstream=2E >=20 > As for wireless configuration tools, there's 'bsdconfig wireless', > which uses dialog(1) and therefore works on any terminal, as well as > net-mgmt/wifimgr for GTK, and net/wpa_supplicant_gui/ for Qt=2E > (Yes, 'bsdconfig wireless' is missing from the man-page, but hopefully > not for long [2]) >=20 > Your third point seems to be that you might not at that point have > been aware that they're called bell events (specifically, audible bell > events), and are turned off with either the hw=2Esyscons=2Ebell or > kern=2Evt=2Eenable_bell OIDs in sysctl(8) - so now you know, and knowing > is half the battle=2E ;) > There is a bigger problem underneath this that speaks to habits that > are in some cases distribution-specific - ie=2E distributions might use, > for example, Bill Joys version of vi, nvi v1/v2 (started by Keith > Bostic, but contributed to by many others over the years), vim, > Almquist sh, Bourne sh, Debian Almquist sh, some combination thereof > depending on PATH, or even some that I'm forgetting=2E Thanks for such an informative reply, Daniel=2E As there were several replies regarding sh(1) [Almquist sh]=2E I'd like to add what I think is a good reference to it I found here: https://www=2Ein-ulm=2Ede/~mascheck/various/ash/ >=20 >=20 > [1]: https://github=2Ecom/FreeBSDDesktop/kms-drm/issues/68 > [2]: https://reviews=2Efreebsd=2Eorg/D24378 --Chris
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