From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Apr 26 11:17:25 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E547016A4CE for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:17:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from internet.potentialtech.com (h-66-167-251-6.phlapafg.covad.net [66.167.251.6]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64A0543D31 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:17:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wmoran@potentialtech.com) Received: from potentialtech.com (pa-plum1c-102.pit.adelphia.net [24.53.179.102]) by internet.potentialtech.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A32D269A71 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:17:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <408D517E.4050403@potentialtech.com> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:14:22 -0400 From: Bill Moran User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040422 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20040426162053.GC2726@isite.net> <20040426165558.91746.qmail@web14106.mail.yahoo.com> <20040426170220.GB6538@isite.net> <408D4557.6070401@potentialtech.com> <20040426174027.GB8786@isite.net> <408D4CC3.70001@potentialtech.com> <20040426180859.GF8786@isite.net> In-Reply-To: <20040426180859.GF8786@isite.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Proper process for reporting bugs X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:17:26 -0000 My apoligies to the list for feeding the Troll. I didn't realize it until this post. I'll stop. Joe Rhett wrote: > On Mon, Apr 26, 2004 at 01:54:11PM -0400, Bill Moran wrote: > >>It appears as if the major problem is simply a communication difficulty. >> >>I did not mean that this is the wrong forum for discussing PRs, patches and >>fixes. >> >>I meant that this is the wrong forum for discussing policy, and whether or >>not you think FreeBSD is a good project or not. Those kind of posts belong >>on Slashdot or similar. > > > I have NEVER in any form stated any opinion about FreeBSD itself, other > than that I liked the changes in the boot process. > > >>This forum is for taking the FreeBSD project forward. I understand if you >>don't have time to craft well-written PRs with patches, but (unfortunately) >>myself and most others are in that same situation. As a result, PRs >>without patches are likely to be ignored - NOT because we don't like you >>or we don't like the idea, or we are Nazi whackos ... but simply because >>we don't have the time to fix it either. > > > I have never stated that I wouldn't submit PRs or that I wouldn't provide > patches. I was following the guidelines. Again, section 3 "Preparation" > which explicitly states that they should be brought up on the mailing lists > first. > > >>>For which I have gotten sarcastic responses and insults. >> >>I'm sorry ... I may have missed some posts, but so far the only sarcasm and >>insults I've seen have come from you and been directed at the FreeBSD >>project as a whole. For example: >> >>"So from this point forward I'll keep my comments to myself, instead of >>going out of my way to bring things to the attention of those that can fix >>them. Didn't realize FreeBSD doesn't care about those things, but I've >>certainly gotten that impression direct and clear over the last few days." > > > There is no sarcasm in there. It is all stated fact, and I never meant to > imply anything other than what I said. And no insults either. There is a > single stated direction for me, and a mention that I had gotten an impression. > > Nothing compared to the barrage of personal insults I have received. > > >>>The maturity >>>level of responses I have received leaves much to be desired. >> >>Again ... the only immature responses I've seen so far have been yours. > > > Then you aren't looking. I'm also tired of wasting my time. > > >>understand that you're frustrated ... so am I. I have a list of things so >>long that need done that I'll never get to most of them, and it's >>frustrating to me. The fact that I have to take time to try to cool down >>this argument (when I should be fixing a problem with phppdflib) is even >>more frustrating. > > > Trust me. I've got half a dozen patches here that haven't even been > discussed, and instead of doing anything productive I'm having to deal with > people insulting me for things I have never said or implied. > > >>Please don't make it a waste of my time by being nothing more than a Troll. >>I've gone out of my way in the past to help a frustrated newcomer only to >>find out that the newcomer was completely unreasonable. > > > I have not been unreasonable. I have repeatedly followed up on every > single > > >>Stop. Take a deep breath. Now consider the following: >>1) What you're asking for may seem reasonable to you, but may not be at >> the top of everyone elses list. Just because it seems like a good >> idea to you doesn't mean it does to everyone else. This why salesmen >> get paid so much, because they're good at convincing people of things. > > > Sure, I would happily consider this if a single person had argued > against the changes I've suggested. Nobody has argued about the validity > of the changes, instead they've just insulted me or assumed that I would > disagree with the changes they would make and then insulted me for that. > > >>2) If someone _did_ respond to you with sarcasm and insult, then you're >> not helping anything by responding in like kind. If you really care >> about improving things, you'll ignore those responses and focus on >> something constructive (like posts that aren't insult and sarcasm) > > > I have never resorted to personal attacks on people, nor have I suggested > that anyone else go away. > > >>3) If you continue with this thread in the tone that you're taking, you're >> likely to inspire continued insults and sarcasm, which will waste a >> lot of everyone's time, and eventually get you banned from the mailing >> list. > > > Given that you seem to persist in claiming that I am doing > something wrong, when I have done nothing other than follow the submission > guidelines for PRs and then receive a barrage of attacks... > > I see no other useful action than to remove myself from this list. > -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com