From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 26 08:55:15 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D7E71065672 for ; Sat, 26 Mar 2011 08:55:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lichray@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qy0-f175.google.com (mail-qy0-f175.google.com [209.85.216.175]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3017F8FC12 for ; Sat, 26 Mar 2011 08:55:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qyk35 with SMTP id 35so155613qyk.13 for ; Sat, 26 Mar 2011 01:55:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=FqKvgh5Kg09zuI7n7y0NUhIJvTkvpWkFvQmduzUAl1E=; b=NUxtV6A8FMusApEdT9gWm+VZHIhQ7w7S+d3iRBf4Bs8UHt+SOmGc60inMQArFXVkeo e7sntIfqFzjqr/Qt8bjmuVBfrlYmqqPiz1VQllqcRPRcaitolsqhOKL5mZjNldcZqNop DroeMNv8/fvn3/eqszldngx7i/9IePF4jcy4M= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=K2WpNEbwHVzU27oXgkM+mbPc0LYsKX8cyFTaMbzDd5Xu7RiX21QhPKsVy85z1zIJs6 vUVqKFxhcsZoNaaftmaCVhQ2bBexsZFO04ceWpca95Denae8rHIGgQ+ZrlSCLKu4Wgpk Ldk8hsr1rZwoiiCMiQRAtT8zPH6naigtWyUOY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.211.65 with SMTP id gn1mr1510586qab.355.1301129712643; Sat, 26 Mar 2011 01:55:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.20.19 with HTTP; Sat, 26 Mar 2011 01:55:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20110326084537.GA18254@psconsult.nl> References: <86mxkm1erm.fsf@gmail.com> <86aaglx1ow.fsf@gmail.com> <20110326084537.GA18254@psconsult.nl> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 03:55:12 -0500 Message-ID: From: Zhihao Yuan To: Paul Schenkeveld Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [GSoC] About the idea: Unicode support in vi X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 08:55:15 -0000 On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 3:45 AM, Paul Schenkeveld wr= ote: > On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 08:20:07PM -0500, Zhihao Yuan wrote: >> On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 7:26 PM, Arnaud Lacombe wro= te: >> > Hi, >> > >> > On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 7:32 PM, Zhihao Yuan wrote= : >> >> Among *all* the GNU/Linux distributions I used, they include a vim >> >> compiled in tiny mode (ln -s it to vi), which doubles the size of nvi= , >> >> in their base systems. A vim.tiny contains much more features compare= d >> >> with nvi, but it's not compatible with POSIX vi. >> >> >> > Let's compare the comparable, I don't really care if PCbsd ship vim as >> > its default, but FreeBSD as the base is not only aimed at desktop >> > specifically. So you should take into account that I may want to run >> > FreeBSD on an adm5120 board with 32MB of RAM, without having a text >> > editor consuming too much disk-space/ram. >> > >> > =C2=A0- Arnaud >> > >> >> If you really want to use vi in a 32MB mem environment, the ex-vi may >> make sense. It consumes 1600KB memory while nvi consumes 2000KB. Note >> that the ee editor uses same amount memory as ex-vi. >> >> So basically, if no one disagree that we can drop the infinite undo, >> multiple buffer, multiple window and some other potential missing >> features, we can replace the nvi in the base system with ex-vi. > > I like the idea of adding Unicode support to nvi but I hate the idea of > replacing nvi in the base system by something else. =C2=A0I've been there > before, when administering a heterogenous environment with Unix, BSD and > Linux systems, being a heavy user of vi, it's frustrating if commands in > various versions of vi do not behave *exactly* the same, e.g. different > versions of vi leave the cursor in different places after undo, the > effect of the repeat command (.) after an undo command, the availability > or not to do something like /pattern/z. to find and position the found > text in the middle of the screen so you can immediately see the context. > > Administering hundreds of FreeBSD systems at various sites would become > a nightmare if frequently used utilities in the base system do not > behave exactly the same between different builds, a true POLA violation > I think. =C2=A0I truly hope that adding unicode to nvi doesn't change the > behaviour of nvi, at least not when not using actually Unicode. I will improve nvi only, and I won't break the traditional functions. But your words reminds me that, perhaps the move of cursor is a problem for a mbytes-enabled vi. We will see. > > I think it makes more sense to grow a WITHOUT_NVI knob in buildworld so > that people building for embedded systems can exclude nvi and include > another version of vi when really pressed for space, like we can replace > the base systems sendmail by sendmail from ports or another MTA. > > Regards, > > Paul Schenkeveld > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " > --=20 Zhihao Yuan The best way to predict the future is to invent it.