From owner-svn-src-head@freebsd.org Tue Sep 3 14:07:15 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-head@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A87A9DD2F3; Tue, 3 Sep 2019 14:07:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yuripv@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [96.47.72.132]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "freefall.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 46N8032Hxlz4Q6r; Tue, 3 Sep 2019 14:06:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yuripv@freebsd.org) Received: by freefall.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1452) id 812CD1AEC2; Tue, 3 Sep 2019 14:06:24 +0000 (UTC) X-Original-To: yuripv@localmail.freebsd.org Delivered-To: yuripv@localmail.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mx1.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by freefall.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 798BF120C0; 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Wed, 17 Apr 2019 16:01:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 65B5285CF7; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 16:01:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from John-Baldwins-MacBook-Pro-3.local (ralph.baldwin.cx [66.234.199.215]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: jhb) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B8A231E59C; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 16:01:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Subject: Re: svn commit: r346250 - in head: share/man/man4 share/man/man9 sys/dev/random sys/kern sys/libkern sys/sys To: cem@freebsd.org Cc: src-committers , svn-src-all , svn-src-head References: <201904151840.x3FIeaEQ009242@repo.freebsd.org> <457a2c63-f062-8fc6-15d4-6f5b93981930@FreeBSD.org> <5d790a56-1498-094e-6bb4-48345a231e55@FreeBSD.org> From: John Baldwin Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=jhb@FreeBSD.org; 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Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-src-committers@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 353EB85D02 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.98 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.984,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] Status: O X-BeenThere: svn-src-head@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: SVN commit messages for the src tree for head/-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2019 14:07:15 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2019 09:01:42 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2019 14:07:15 -0000 On 4/16/19 4:43 PM, Conrad Meyer wrote: > On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 4:28 PM John Baldwin wrote: >> Still, what I would suggest is to have the existing arc4random() use WITNESS_WARN. >> We could provide an alternative API that is non-blocking and returns EWOULDBLOCK. > > I think the alternative EWOULDBLOCK proposal is worse than > WITNESS_WARN. But I highlighted some problems with WITNESS_WARN in my > earlier email; how would you resolve them? > >> Code that trips over the warning would have to be changed to use the non-blocking >> API and then deal with EWOULDBLOCK. > > Or it could just check that the random device is seeded, prior to > using arc4random? You're missing the point which is that you've added potential blocking in a lot of places by changing the semantics of arc4random. Unless you're intending to hand-audit all of them (as well as future uses), I think having the existing API be "safe" (and blocking) but use WITNESS_WARN is a way to catch existing and future locking problems. The EWOULDBLOCK API is something a developer would choose and it means they would be aware of the constraint and need to deal with it, either by handling EWOULDBLOCK in some way, or deferring use until seeded, etc. >> One way of dealing with that would be to >> check the is_random_seeded() flag earlier in the function, subsystem, whatever >> and then the code could assert that the non-blocking API never failed. > > That's more or less the status quo with no-error arc4random, no? Except that we don't know which existing or future uses of arc4random need this unless you manually audit all of them (which doesn't help future uses). -- John Baldwin