From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 21 12:59:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA17055 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 12:59:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.atipa.com (altrox.atipa.com [208.128.22.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA16971 for ; Thu, 21 May 1998 12:58:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd@atipa.com) Received: (qmail 2057 invoked by uid 1017); 21 May 1998 18:55:41 -0000 Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 12:55:41 -0600 (MDT) From: Atipa To: Josef Grosch cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , fpawlak@execpc.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, kline@tera.tera.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Enough already! (Re: Why we should support Microsoft...) In-Reply-To: <19980521082629.B25066@mooseriver.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > They are in volation of US anti-trust laws, yes, The justice department is > setting a bad presidence trying to tell microsoft how to write software, > yes. All these things are true, so what were you planing on doing about > this? Make better software? :) [... snip ...] > In theory they are employees of "We the people". Go out and _WORK_ to > change things. If you are not part of the solution then you are part of the > problem. (Now my past is beginning to show) Actually, if you are not part of the solution, you are a precipitate. (Sorry for that Chemically inert pun... now _my_ past is beginning to show!) > What is really pissing me off about this entire thread is all of you have > missed the fact this this is a golden opportunity to advance FreeBSD. In case > you have not noticed, FreeBSD is in microsoft's cross-hairs. Well, I got yelled at profusely when I mentioned this topic in -advocacy. But I agree with you wholeheartedly. > So, rather then spend all out time theorizing about anti-trust and > Objectivism (or what ever they are calling Ann Ryan's bullshit these days) > lets focus on how we can make the FreeBSD the OS of choice for the ISP and > server market and fuck microsoft & the horse they rode in on. I agree. I started this thread to let people know that we need to be just as cautious w/ Unlce Sam as we are w/ Uncle Bill, but you are right that the point was lost along the way. Here are my suggestions for advancing FreeBSD, and what I think we need to do to get cut into the MS pie: 1) Provide professional support. -------------------------------- Many companies are very weary of software that does not have on-demand, fully capable support facilities. Although those of us in the community are familiar with the "support system" (emails, web pages, newsgroups, friends, etc.), the whole deal looks very second-rate to companies accustombed to on-site OS experts and 24-hour tech support hotlines. This service would need to be provided by a 3rd party support network. I see this support segment not only as a valuable service to the Project, but a great business opportunity. I tried to register the domain for freebsd-support.com, but it is already taken, and the web site is a disgrace. NetBSD has found its way into some good situations solely on its support. FreeBSD would benefit greatly from such a service. After speaking with several commercial companies, their number one problem with supporting the "Free" OSes was support. They saw a big potential liability for customer support at the application level since the OS level support was not readily available. Professional support would increase the confidence of clients and developers, and offer a good money-making opportunity for those involved. 2) Market Thyself! ------------------ We all complain about how MS sells w/ marketing instead of substance, and are too PROUD to "stoop" to their level. That is a bit harsh, since they have gargantuan financial backing and financial motives, but the essence remains: the market needs a shrink wrapped, advertised, clean-cut product. Walnut Creek has done a good job with the content and delivery, but tuning in the masses is not really their concern. The only way I see to spread the word without dropping millions of dollars is to have a PR team that just produces media-ready info (Press Releases, product comparisons, benchmarks, reviews, etc.). I know this has been discussed, but I think the level of promotion is still relatively low. Being pragmatic and looking at "the Powers that Be", I have decided that marketing is more important than the actual content and technical merit of a product. This is not romantic and perfect, but it is the way people work. They are not logical, but they _are_ predictable. It appears to me that FreeBSD work is about 99.5% technical (kernel updates, ports, packages, features, security, etc.), and about 0.5% "fluff" (documentation, marketing, promoting, graphic designing, etc.). We need more "fluffers". The biggest enemy as far as Press is concerned is Ziff Davis. They are my second most hated company (behind US West), and they are bigger sluts than MS. They totally flaunt their heavy-hitting advertisers and have NO REGARD for the truth. And they have so many trash rag magazines that their sphere of influence in computing is very large. I'll need to think about infiltrating ZD, since coming up w/ big bucks is not an easy option... 3) Fix Threads and Java Support ------------------------------- These are the only technical problems I feel are holding down progress. There are always knick-knacks and do-dads, but those (related) problems are hurting fairly badly. As far as networking, security, stability, hardware support, etc., I feel FreeBSD is about as good as it gets. I think the techincal merits of FreeBSD are many, and we can make a bigger impact immediately just by investing in Problems 1 and 2. But I see the only way to beat MS will be to get commercial developers away from MS binary compatibility. Java is the best way so far in my estimation. These are only my opinions, and please nobody take any of these criticisms personally. There are no personal criticisms whatsoever. And for those who say, "Well, easy for you to say!", let me know where to sign up. I am serious about making things better. Regards, Kevin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message