Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2014 21:24:43 +0200 From: Baptiste Daroussin <bapt@freebsd.org> To: "Simon J. Gerraty" <sjg@juniper.net> Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: make WITH[OUT]_* more useful? Message-ID: <20140401192443.GV99393@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> In-Reply-To: <20140401162912.7A9D058097@chaos.jnpr.net> References: <20140401051327.F20F958097@chaos.jnpr.net> <20140401064316.GQ99393@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> <766EFF76-7B41-423F-B447-DBA25BD14470@bsdimp.com> <20140401162912.7A9D058097@chaos.jnpr.net>
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On Tue, Apr 01, 2014 at 09:29:12AM -0700, Simon J. Gerraty wrote:
>=20
> On Tue, 1 Apr 2014 08:22:18 -0600, Warner Losh writes:
> >>> re-implement the WITH_* vs WITHOUT_* logic repeatedly.
> >
> >Where, exactly, do we do this? In my recent gripping I=3D92ve found almo=
st
>=20
> I hit this just about every possible way while trying to support
> WITH[OUT]_BMAKE=20
> in such a way that people could build head on 9 etc.
> Incluing in-tree bsd.own.mk so MK_BMAKE would get set - broke building
> on 9 IIRC.
>=20
> Being able to simply do MK_BMAKE?=3D {yes,no} would have been best soluti=
on.
>=20
> Also I normally want to built WITH_CTF, but of course you cannot simply
> put that in make.conf you have to=20
>=20
> .if !defined(WITHOUT_CTF) && !defined(NO_CTF)
> WITH_CTF=3Dyes
> .endif
>=20
> else you get errors during buildworld.
>=20
> >>> It is also generally bad to include bsd.own.mk from sys.mk, which mea=
ns
> >>> any knobs you need early must re-implement the WITH_* vs WITHOUT_* lo=
gic
> >>> repeatedly.
> >
> >Again, I find no evidence of this in the tree, can you cite specific exa=
mpl=3D
>=20
> It isn't done anymore (was certainly done back in 2.x, don't recall when
> it was removed), which is good, but means that sys.mk cannot use
> any MK_* that the user can influence via WITH[OUT]_*. =20
> That's not so much a problem for existing options, but makes it
> impractical to leverage the mechanism for things you might want to set
> during sys.mk - like whether to use meta mode or auto objdir creation.
>=20
> >I mostly hate this. Specifically, I don=3D92t like the DOMINANT bits. Th=
ey ar=3D
> >e unnecessary.
>=20
> I mostly agree - I find it quite reasonable to simply allow WITHOUT to wi=
n.
> DOMINANT_* is just an "out" in case there's some future case I haven't
> thought of. The default behavior remains that WITHOUT wins.
>=20
> >WITH/WITHOUT is a user-only knob.=20
>=20
> Agreed, but the implementation renders it user unfriendly.
> If everywhere I want to set a default (eg make.conf) I have to do a
> dance like
>=20
> .if !defined(WITHOUT_CTF) && !defined(NO_CTF)
> WITH_CTF=3Dyes
> .endif
>=20
> it isn't exactly helping me as much as it could.
> If the build stops using WITH/WITHOUT internally that probably helps.
>=20
> >The build system should never use it, but always
> >set MK_* directly.=20
>=20
> Agreed - that would be most useful and is one of the main changes in my
> version.
>=20
> >I recently fixed it so the build system can start doing =3D
> >that. This solves
> >the WITH and WITHOUT problem internally.
>=20
> That's good - being able to set MK_* directly without causing error
> does address the issue for the build itself.
>=20
> Alone though it doesn't necessarily make life any better for users
> who (per my example above) want to set defaults like
> WITH_CTF=3D in make.conf but occasionally override them. Unless they too
> are supposed to set MK_* directly but then what is the point of
> WITH[OUT]_* ?
>=20
> >I'm still not sure I see the big win.
>=20
> I have a number of knobs to be set during sys.mk
> AUTO_OBJ automatically create objdirs
> META_MODE use meta mode
>=20
> setting MK_* is fine, but it is nice if you allow the user to interact
> using WITH[OUT]_*, and for that it is best if sys.mk can safely include
> something like options.mk
>=20
> Of course the user can learn to MK_AUTO_OBJ=3Dno but that simply devalues
> WITH[OUT]_*=20
>=20
> It is a neat mechanism, that with some minor tweaks could be much more
> useful.
>=20
> Baptiste writes:
> >> I would be interested in having your opinion on what we did for ports.
>=20
> It is a bit more elaborate (422 lines vs 59 in options.mk)
> that's probably a necessity for ports, but not so sure about inclusion
> by sys.mk
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
it is more elaborate because it sets ports only things which is not needed =
at
all for src. It also handles compat with precious versions of options.
Extracting the pure framework will lead to around 30 lines no more. and pro=
bably
way less.
I can make a PoC if you want
regards,
Bapt
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