From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 3 17:48:27 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 746E8106566B for ; Tue, 3 Jan 2012 17:48:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from four.harrisons@googlemail.com) Received: from mail-wi0-f182.google.com (mail-wi0-f182.google.com [209.85.212.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01E278FC18 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 2012 17:48:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wibhr1 with SMTP id hr1so16230902wib.13 for ; Tue, 03 Jan 2012 09:48:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:x-mailer:mime-version :content-type; bh=sEpx4hQm2lT4cWLlBPIuvi8Li111swZ2RbEcAfHsAcI=; b=bx9Ps491p2TQUQbxEY+Sp9XKw78lPC94exbx/U8+hASZz/yWPEvglRMWRAVpSsmxuD mZGLUFWZOj/F/fWfPTr38VXrjjbi55hAJCLS9hHvdaX6OvbbGDkmrEdvqFqI8npMn4dD QgPGJFN0kfdqd/98UcJasR2X+EMwes+/d/4Ls= Received: by 10.180.19.74 with SMTP id c10mr115398309wie.8.1325611117408; Tue, 03 Jan 2012 09:18:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from www.palm.com ([82.132.248.232]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id fq7sm55569919wbb.1.2012.01.03.09.18.34 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 03 Jan 2012 09:18:36 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4f03386c.87cde30a.26cb.ffff8eda@mx.google.com> Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2012 17:18:34 +0000 From: "Peter Harrison" To: "FreeBSD" In-Reply-To: <20120103071028.4964dd33@scorpio> X-Mailer: Palm webOS Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Re: Realtek RTL8191SEvB Linux driver? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2012 17:48:27 -0000 Jerry, Sorry for top posting. Take offense if you like. The o= nly thing I have to say after experiencing the last few days on-list is to = (gently) point out that not everyone's goal in life is to run a system like= Windows. If that was what I wanted I'd be running Windows. I find F= reeBSD more intuitive and easier to use. And I'm prepared to accept that I = have to be a bit picky about the hardware I buy. I consider it a price wort= h paying. Would I like better hardware support? Of course! But if th= e price of that is a fundamental change to the OS interface, then I think t= he price is too high. It strikes me that Ubuntu are running very fas= t to turn Linux into Windows. They'll have good device support and a strong= GUI layer. I'm sure that will fit a lot of users needs, but /not mine/. People who wa= nt that should use Ubuntu. Or Windows. People who like the freedom and "con= figurability" offered by FreeBSD should use FreeBSD and accept the payoff. = And we should all just rub along, happy in the knowledge that we have chose= n the system we want. -- Pe= ter Harrison _________________________________________________________________ On 3 Jan 201= 2 12:11, Jerry wrote: On Tue, 03= Jan 2012 16:44:30 +1000=0D Da Rock articulated:=0D =0D > On 01= /03/12 11:15, Jeffrey McFadden wrote:=0D > > I have a Toshiba Sate= llite U505-S2950 laptop with a Realtek=0D > > RTL8191SEvB wireless= card built in. FreeBSD doesn't recognize this=0D > > card and ca= n't use it, but Ubuntu does.=0D > >=0D > > Would it be po= ssible to go glom a Linux driver off the web=0D > > someplace and = install it in my FreeBSD and get the wireless to=0D > > work? I'm= using a USB Belkin in it now, but that's an unhandy=0D > > thing = sticking out like it does.=0D > >=0D > Unfortunately the API= 's are completely different. Adrian Chadd does a =0D > lot of work on= Wifi in FreeBSD, but I'm not sure if its on the todo=0D > list or no= t. Try a search on google...=0D =0D This is what drives me to pull my= hair out. I have stated several times=0D that all the *nix/*BSD consort= ium needs to do to become truly=0D competitive in the market is to devis= e a uniform API that works the same=0D on FreeBSD as on Ubuntu and every= other non-windows based system. The=0D concept is so simple that it ama= zes me that it was not implemented=0D eons ago.=0D =0D The problem= is that the non-windows operating system authors all behave=0D live lit= tle children. None of them can simply get along. The all have=0D to insi= st that "they" have the best and everyone else is wrong. They=0D swing b= etween Narcissism and Paranoia on any given day. You would have=0D an ea= sier time getting a Jew and a Muslim to sit down at a table and=0D enjoy= a ham dinner than you have of getting the powers that be in the=0D non-= windows community to agree to anything, other than their hatred of=0D Mi= crosoft of course.=0D =0D I have spoken with representatives of compa= nies, the last one being=0D Brother International, who plain out stated = that they only support=0D Microsoft (naturally - they offer the easiest = and best documented=0D system for driver installation) and a vanilla Lin= ux solution. They=0D openly stated that there is no way that they would = even attempt to=0D write software for a market as fractured as the *nix/= *BSD community and=0D then be straddled with the problem of supporting s= uch software. Hell,=0D every time someone in the BSD community dotted an= "i" in the kernel=0D source code the poor driver authors would have to = rewrite their device=0D code. Certainly a task I would not want to be as= signed.=0D =0D Ubuntu is years ahead of FreeBSD in creating a useful = and fully=0D functional desktop, I read where they were working on makin= g it=0D possible to use a driver disk intended for Microsoft's Windows O= S=0D usable in Ubuntu. They were working on a method of simply extractin= g=0D the code needed directly from a CD and using it directly on Ubuntu.= Now=0D that is what I call true "forward" thinking.=0D =0D The au= thors of FreeBSD, and to a lesser extend Linux remind me of group=0D of = of passengers left floating in the ocean after their ship sank. The=0D b= est case scenario at that point would be to be rescued by another=0D pas= sing ship. However, while waiting for that to occur it would seem=0D log= ical to grab onto any object that floated by and thereby allow the=0D st= randed individual a better chance at survival. If these were Ubuntu=0D s= urvivors there would be no question as to what they would choose to=0D d= o, as well as some of the more enlighten *nix" users. However, the=0D *B= SD users, especially the FreeBSD ones would rather drown than accept=0D = a solution that was not counter to what everyone else was trying to=0D a= ccomplish.=0D =0D I have, mistakenly I admit, stated that there are n= o drivers for lots=0D of devices currently available on the market, espe= cially the higher end=0D ones. That statement is essentially incorrect. = There are drivers for=0D these devices, and other OSs are taking advanta= ge of them. FreeBSD,=0D in its unending war against simplicity and conti= nued insistence=0D on reinventing the wheel, refuses to avail itself of = them.=0D =0D You can lead a horse to water; however, you cannot stop = it from running=0D head long into the desert and dying of thirst. Stupid= ity IS its own=0D punishment.=0D =0D It took the Catholic church u= ntil 1992 to admit that Galileo Galilei=0D was correct and the earth doe= s rotate around the sun. So there is hope.=0D Perhaps someday FreeBSD wi= ll become "enlightened" also.=0D =0D -- =0D Jerry =E2=99=94=0D = =0D Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored.= =0D Please do not ignore the Reply-To header.=0D ____________________= ______________________________________________=0D =0D _______________= ________________________________=0D freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailin= g list=0D http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions=0D= To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd= =2Eorg"=0D