From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Apr 8 06:27:46 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0414F5D12C7 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 06:27:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aventador@fastmail.fm) Received: from wout2-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout2-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.25]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FGBC534Ndz4R2q for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 06:27:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aventador@fastmail.fm) Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52A18134B for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 02:27:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imap38 ([10.202.2.88]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 08 Apr 2021 02:27:43 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.fm; h= mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to :subject:content-type; s=fm2; bh=G/g2DnYXv0S7qQZFgZIWq03Eg/acb60 x++z0iM2w2II=; b=OXPAVoYjzr4EZ2OLKKzOFPPT43EjbeRvFR/OvVtcwF5p7S5 mgcVW+HwVyRjLng1pvW9pnYOwmp03yG9wNXi5Cgp4aGqrWZ+qJSHFP15a+Dx1jDO P41vF1S2Bhe9BpIaVk0K9Ms0DfY0n12kjTYPEI3j6NXSBb8StKG6GQ8cRF4t88CK y66cGL7tyNtNw8inKEVMCzAN1U2LRQmD4OrIEHEv5mhCieB/tLCo0vkJTsVhfiKy dOcsdt6qHg1yjDH7k1MkhdVqZHQws/2QFubl0X5f+lUvJsozzQYwCEzR+587ysyB Aw4YNtMW3WdxWyp+BGshC0j4j4oGLFR5vEPbgvA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=G/g2Dn YXv0S7qQZFgZIWq03Eg/acb60x++z0iM2w2II=; b=JXcwnS/vZ9W89DJkJQaR8I zoFmHN5xwev+oZxKFLK3Wal6lKFV5KjN9dEaOlKr7cNuSO3sGDhy+GZKO2cDQ5fj c/lwimQdMmT9lEcG83d+yebh3o+9XlaAWlXt6ePzPCEIGszfi95ufV9BqF5iOT/j YnijO3lrhu2gIdlWobGhrCZ3iB6MBJ4f2mZybVBRAOgKbIlRfi3ig1Z7imuwrrRc s+yU9w0DiX3kfZKxxye8iY+ttb9ZVEka/UJH5kAWIxDLamKu58YpYatTEibSnlH0 /LB1hwnkuKNP803G1RkrrbhzcKpHobNbd2nhSvIjZCxSKa1sqLAA0wFbol+rx1zw == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledrudejkedguddtkecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpefofgggkfgjfhffhffvufgtsehttdertderredtnecuhfhrohhmpegrvhgv nhhtrgguohhrsehfrghsthhmrghilhdrfhhmnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepveevjeejke elffejffeujefgteevvdfgveethfehkedvleevhfetgeduuedtveevnecuvehluhhsthgv rhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomheprghvvghnthgrughorhesfh grshhtmhgrihhlrdhfmh X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id A6BE8CA005E; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 02:27:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.5.0-alpha0-273-g8500d2492d-fm-20210323.002-g8500d249 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <09981e70-3798-47b6-9789-d59cc0baae34@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <202104051444.135EixF6025306@slippy.cwsent.com> Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2021 15:27:14 +0900 From: aventador@fastmail.fm To: "Robert Blayzor via freebsd-stable" Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? Content-Type: text/plain X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FGBC534Ndz4R2q X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=fastmail.fm header.s=fm2 header.b=OXPAVoYj; dkim=pass header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm2 header.b=JXcwnS/v; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=fastmail.fm; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aventador@fastmail.fm designates 64.147.123.25 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aventador@fastmail.fm X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.08 / 15.00]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:64.147.123.25:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[fastmail.fm]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[fastmail.fm:+,messagingengine.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[fastmail.fm,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.992]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[64.147.123.25:from]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[fastmail.fm]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11403, ipnet:64.147.123.0/24, country:US]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[64.147.123.25:from]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[fastmail.fm:s=fm2,messagingengine.com:s=fm2]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[fastmail.fm:dkim]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[64.147.123.25:from:127.0.2.255]; FROM_NO_DN(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_WWW(0.50)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 08 Apr 2021 13:54:10 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2021 06:27:46 -0000 I think folks have different definitions of what an operating system should be. An Operating System (OS) is an interface between a computer user and computer hardware. An operating system is a software which performs all the basic tasks like file management, memory management, process management, handling input and output, and controlling peripheral devices such as disk drives and printers. If you add or take away from the above definition, then there is your misunderstanding. Best Regards, Vic Thacker On Wed, Apr 7, 2021, at 21:17, tech-lists wrote: > Hi, I'm a bit late to the discussion > > On Mon, Apr 05, 2021 at 07:44:59AM -0700, Cy Schubert wrote: > > >I think this is an excellent start. My shopping list includes: > > > >- remove ftp(1) > >- remove ftpd(8) > >- remove telnet(1) > >- remove telnetd(8) > >- remove ftp:// and http:// from libfetch. This is 2021 and we should all > >use https://. > >- replace DNS lookups with DoH and/or DoT. Why let your ISP see your DNS > >traffic? > > Very firmly against this, and this sort of thing, for the following reasons: > > 1. I want an OS, not a kernel. If I just want a kernel, then why not go > with linux? FreeBSD is meant to be, I think, (generally), a server OS. > So, would you agree that it needs the ability to have server protocols > easily configured, with a minimum of fuss, without packages? > > 2. a lot of infrastructure depends on ftpd. it's easy to configure > securely ftpd in base. > > 3. there are some networks, like internal ones, where encryption is not > a requirement, or appropriate. > > 4. there are some places where encryption is in fact illegal. > > >Personally, I'd suggest we remove the ftpd server *AND* ftp client and rely > >on ports. Having worked on UNIX, Internet security, and firewalls over the > >last 3/5 of my almost 50 year career, I have lamented the existence of the > >FTP protocol back in 1995 and I hate the FTP protocol with greater a > >passion today. Let's simply remove all vestiges of FTP from the base > >system, including libfetch, sooner than later. We don't need it now that we > >have HTTPS and POST; and sftp. > > 5. some services commonly don't use https. Lots of internet radio > stations don't. If https is enforced then the user will have to jump > through more hoops than they already do in order to, in this case, > listen to internet radio. Or face a loss of functionality. > > 6. not everywhere will have constant internet access. Not everyone will > want to use pkgs or have space for the ports tree. > > >I think we should make it our goal to remove any and all unencrypted > >protocols from FreeBSD by 2025. > > I think you should carefully think of the consequences of removing > functionality in the default install. It will make it less useful, not > more. > -- > J. > > Attachments: > * signature.asc