From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Apr 17 19:10:14 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BC742C54E5 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 19:10:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Norman.Gray@glasgow.ac.uk) Received: from plockton.cent.gla.ac.uk (plockton.cent.gla.ac.uk [130.209.16.75]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 493lz933Czz4TrK for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 19:10:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Norman.Gray@glasgow.ac.uk) Received: from cas08.campus.gla.ac.uk ([130.209.14.165]) by plockton.cent.gla.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1jPWNP-0000T1-GT; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 20:10:11 +0100 Received: from CAS08.campus.gla.ac.uk (130.209.14.165) by cas08.campus.gla.ac.uk (130.209.14.165) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.2; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 20:10:11 +0100 Received: from GBR01-LO2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (104.47.21.58) by CAS08.campus.gla.ac.uk (130.209.14.165) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.2 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 20:10:11 +0100 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=NgaWa/S50f5kWmn4v85XPN2hpQgG6WPF8M5QwaYds9KlotuSWYdIdrXQgJRPIqd5zvpCjWyXWQPzlnVRv9WrJGqSLPD0diMzeL1NZrN0ij8ypKJ/acsF4CPAF0RK2ke4TcXCpI8qpFg60nQGJ++05nQlCORE4r0hJHKq+jP6M2n0KOjuLkSskZeAEed32+8cI+UhbiFOZIuKSIGEukwb6rRkvk5ynxkPm6EuvlmvPDkEy6tF37kEUNBkhwm5kH7RoH1Hqoy2pYkIF/85c+zmtPzQMC20cj1geT1XYmE+mMjiL3u5HXc5UzEo0IyWtaSzkeZ0eUIgs/jQLVzSW6eUlA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=2zx6dSeYhqflqZocjAGkV1TiwzwIM7bSgtXbf95wrCo=; b=AyL1xSQinZBvMN2jMPerLhOBaxepvVlmwCkR2iXgJfK2Z4SRd7EktXRVl+oHu8tM8x0ePLrh7nON7BQ9d+INYx+gF0Z/ApA6CZHHg0IgEwJr/0sYgA4R/uRaigiV+pumvRQk8gEaZVXanDM8+bfGTbShXlbck0eoqtuMBt9co+fIU172OWgGKVFCDZWUKrAnHd4tiyGrO1tDlOEJ/j5R5BdJLIr4HaLkz9Y9Izibe88aac+pC490Ko0azurSn9rn4RbMoQ73GbOCz0kxOtsRVsY4s8TPROMNUefHHfWmGKAcYgJJw2GyPyXplSOQQWoQXckbSXiRX5HqFJfSzrymjQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=glasgow.ac.uk; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=glasgow.ac.uk; dkim=pass header.d=glasgow.ac.uk; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gla.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-gla-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=2zx6dSeYhqflqZocjAGkV1TiwzwIM7bSgtXbf95wrCo=; b=o1MlCqnb/fukugStfH3lHZMrFMz/z4/ptRVFtF/D9UGZoQHMX9KD6VcTopWPnAn/uG37J3ua3jrRE8fFNhL9N5nkTxbb11gw847ovve7ZS2buEQNLurVNvZLoDZLX4uY8if9SQdPxVie0KWwf73GyiMXkf/t2i53wHthcumzQJ4= Received: from CWXP265MB0149.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (10.164.144.19) by CWXP265MB0598.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (10.164.185.16) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2900.24; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 19:10:10 +0000 Received: from CWXP265MB0149.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::40d7:744b:8734:b8dd]) by CWXP265MB0149.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::40d7:744b:8734:b8dd%6]) with mapi id 15.20.2921.027; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 19:10:10 +0000 From: "Norman Gray" To: Steve O'Hara-Smith CC: FreeBSD Questions Mailing List Subject: Re: freebsd should be rewritten based on microkernel architecture Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 20:10:09 +0100 X-Mailer: MailMate (1.13.1r5671) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20200417195133.6b141c4aa8c0b402a8fdb72f@sohara.org> References: <3f1496d1f598c84b3871b630f161256e152aca75.camel@tom.com> <20200417171839.4538036d626667f168936c7f@sohara.org> <423845A3-98EA-4F84-92F4-DD1DD26A8DFB@glasgow.ac.uk> <20200417195133.6b141c4aa8c0b402a8fdb72f@sohara.org> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-ClientProxiedBy: LO2P265CA0476.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:600:a2::32) To CWXP265MB0149.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:401:8::19) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Received: from [192.168.1.29] (2001:8b0:df5:af53:49eb:74f9:8890:5f79) by LO2P265CA0476.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:600:a2::32) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2921.27 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 19:10:10 +0000 X-Mailer: MailMate (1.13.1r5671) X-Originating-IP: [2001:8b0:df5:af53:49eb:74f9:8890:5f79] X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 75f5984c-7c6a-4ab7-b3fc-08d7e302f2ed X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: CWXP265MB0598: X-MS-Exchange-Transport-Forked: True X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: X-MS-Oob-TLC-OOBClassifiers: OLM:9508; X-Forefront-PRVS: 0376ECF4DD X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:CWXP265MB0149.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:(10009020)(366004)(136003)(39860400002)(376002)(346002)(396003)(316002)(81156014)(5660300002)(4326008)(786003)(2906002)(53546011)(33656002)(52116002)(8936002)(8676002)(966005)(6486002)(36756003)(6916009)(66476007)(66556008)(16526019)(478600001)(186003)(86362001)(2616005)(66946007); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; Received-SPF: None (protection.outlook.com: glasgow.ac.uk does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1 X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: X8GshfXg1g3rrT+pOsJZ24mpvAI0CMat91huZ3MEDj1GXgTZitKyEkIu3aTFeromthwM0LxwThsavEt/hsc8qRyXnlcha6gSq43I4TXRaShep0gdSJuHbnoCLWtazoGvoxe8watx+Qbn3Y7r6JfReSo8FAb6fu1M7cmpU8jBjjIYmsbKrEM2o6tclv7VJ9bRtZUqrkGQPasMCpr1n4Atyo2zisjvTr3Wn+QXgSVprB2j1uzUVnHsdrOjiRj/cVL2twdOxp7UGkQX6aUoOexbzsTpUnJLUZ1Rinbn3GUSw/HJSAX+gvU3sEPloJ74kk5WPDkWsGZ6hrQXapPRklXomItpTRjT3jvlQQ4zmIAnDSvpsENtOgAztKmvYAOoFH9f2rJNXq4NoxWgcY/DI+rcZokzp8z1i1D5l0d62j+YUKskiphhTOD20REyWl82AlWGdSIgoN/yL5mLYCaDB0HFFDCvEM2twEndKlAfc2JdB3I23sp/9lPRwopiiUvTVnpvoKk0sXGVjFUAL7YdqBIzUA== X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData: F9b0jq6MyJSNYydj7sN4QFZriW9H3T9Vcvr72bYdlGTOZybCtI0xvT21Yh3EsvaRTCxUyDqBOb0lGoZPTyeWokCUunefRQTjjnYhe9R7mUn4DBv4tebD17IhAHC6Ne1a66OvSlIouEJ/l2yLfegTTDT29nD/EzI9ZRBA9F+SrOgDFlF787gjcYhQWq7QlQS/KnPCFZlrVEr6JL2KzQj9gA== X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 75f5984c-7c6a-4ab7-b3fc-08d7e302f2ed X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Apr 2020 19:10:10.3377 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 6e725c29-763a-4f50-81f2-2e254f0133c8 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: w/ma+ouUUfGvvB/4oM+hRHdQT78GBLLdhZJLXTH+cJzEleL3SBDi7dzbNhUFlj7qp96neBbNisrXnpWL7s0B+WWozfrqh/XmQveaZhLMch0= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CWXP265MB0598 X-OriginatorOrg: glasgow.ac.uk X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 493lz933Czz4TrK X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gla.onmicrosoft.com header.s=selector2-gla-onmicrosoft-com header.b=o1MlCqnb; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of Norman.Gray@glasgow.ac.uk has no SPF policy when checking 130.209.16.75) smtp.mailfrom=Norman.Gray@glasgow.ac.uk X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.46 / 15.00]; RCVD_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[7]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gla.onmicrosoft.com:s=selector2-gla-onmicrosoft-com]; HAS_XOIP(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[75.16.209.130.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.18]; R_MISSING_CHARSET(2.50)[]; IP_SCORE(-0.96)[ipnet: 130.209.0.0/16(-4.38), asn: 786(-0.35), country: GB(-0.07)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[glasgow.ac.uk]; RCVD_DKIM_ARC_DNSWL_MED(-0.50)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[75.16.209.130.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.11.2]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gla.onmicrosoft.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:786, ipnet:130.209.0.0/16, country:GB]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[i=1]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 19:10:14 -0000 Steve, hello. On 17 Apr 2020, at 19:51, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > It's a tangent to this thread, but: can you point to anything which >> discusses this in more detail? > > > The horses mouth: > > Aha! Thank you. Inspired by that, I also found = = (from 2013). Much to read there. I do remember, though, reading somewhere that there was a continuing = relationship between Apple/Darwin and FreeBSD, extending even to Apple = sponsoring FreeBSD development shared with Darwin, with code flowing in = one direction or the other. Did I imagine that, or misremember it? My difficulty in finding any corroboration of that is possibly due to a = failure of google-fu on my part, and possibly a function of Apple's = famous degree of cheerful chattiness when it comes to engineering = internals. Best wishes, Norman -- = Norman Gray : https://nxg.me.uk SUPA School of Physics and Astronomy, University of Glasgow, UK