From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu Jan 3 12:47:03 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F6591429665 for ; Thu, 3 Jan 2019 12:47:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eric@metricspace.net) Received: from mail.metricspace.net (mail.metricspace.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f11:617::107]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2799073522 for ; Thu, 3 Jan 2019 12:47:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eric@metricspace.net) Received: from [172.16.0.55] (unknown [172.16.0.55]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: eric) by mail.metricspace.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 64B942C0C for ; Thu, 3 Jan 2019 12:47:02 +0000 (UTC) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <201901021829.x02IT4Kc064169@slippy.cwsent.com> From: Eric McCorkle Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=eric@metricspace.net; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mDMEWue2FBYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAP/qVPlXodV6pYO5b1Jw0eFyMhyDD7B5y5eFsciutEfS0 JEVyaWMgTWNDb3JrbGUgPGVyaWNAbWV0cmljc3BhY2UubmV0PoiWBBMWCAA+FiEEDxi/0rkj zd6Uc6cFCN/CKRbBwmwFAlrnthQCGwMFCQHhM4AFCwkIBwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AA CgkQCN/CKRbBwmyGKAD/XTSBOItCKcYCPTlsaS1aQYVEwWXXFgdjWE+WsNdZUS8A/AhYAbQZ kNZNimE2rQLoklkfTA74qF/V257NuQi4QDcLuDgEWue2FBIKKwYBBAGXVQEFAQEHQKpZVyCG ync/xqejm2C1HKGXLJTUu38RvnrR3UYECz9nAwEIB4h+BBgWCAAmFiEEDxi/0rkjzd6Uc6cF CN/CKRbBwmwFAlrnthQCGwwFCQHhM4AACgkQCN/CKRbBwmyi2wEAmvaGt8QMjGELzm27gP4c jJGUi7oigsLmTiFPkpJqPz0A+QFBSCvxJaxCMyoVru/xB6bunpJ+Wtsj8HD1EuJOn4EJ Subject: Re: Speculative: Rust for base system components Message-ID: Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 07:46:58 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <201901021829.x02IT4Kc064169@slippy.cwsent.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="YKca981aoJ0Qm45jGoNlRSLtrWQ79U2Uz" X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2019 12:47:03 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --YKca981aoJ0Qm45jGoNlRSLtrWQ79U2Uz Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="XYvkAQEoxZAJ3ICNi8mSi4WOZ7TL21rof"; protected-headers="v1" From: Eric McCorkle To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: Subject: Re: Speculative: Rust for base system components References: <201901021829.x02IT4Kc064169@slippy.cwsent.com> In-Reply-To: <201901021829.x02IT4Kc064169@slippy.cwsent.com> --XYvkAQEoxZAJ3ICNi8mSi4WOZ7TL21rof Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 1/2/19 1:29 PM, Cy Schubert wrote: >> I'm all for discussion and criticism of this, that's why I posted it, >> but I don't think these kinds of false equivalences are helpful. >=20 > Actually it is helpful. Without a solid proposal of a new feature or=20 > userland utility to be imported into base that requires the support of = > a language not already in base, the implication of the original email=20 > starting this thread was to rewrite FreeBSD using rust. That doesn't represent what I wrote at all, and is bordering on a strawman argument. Nobody to my knowledge is suggesting rewriting everything, nor would that be possible. > In reality we should rely more on ports. Over the years this business=20 > has become more fragmented. Each year we see new languages being=20 > developed and used. Importing new shiny objects into base is=20 > unsustainable. IMO the momentum is behind containerization,=20 > specifically kubernetes and docker-like containers. That is today. The = > next year or two will introduce new technologies and shiny objects=20 > which we will likely need to introduce here to remain relevant. We=20 > should be looking to reduce the footprint of base, introduce new=20 > technologies in ports (ports are much easier to build from scratch,=20 > maintain, and update than base). Additionally the idea of meta-ports=20 > that install groups of packages would make building purpose-built=20 > systems a breeze for our user base, similar to what anaconda does, like= =20 > a FreeBSD based LAMP (FAMP) stack package that installs all the=20 > necessary bits with one pkg install command. And that seems to be the point of convergence in all this, which is fine by me. I was looking to discuss the options and figure out the best way forward. --XYvkAQEoxZAJ3ICNi8mSi4WOZ7TL21rof-- --YKca981aoJ0Qm45jGoNlRSLtrWQ79U2Uz Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEARYIAB0WIQQPGL/SuSPN3pRzpwUI38IpFsHCbAUCXC4EQgAKCRAI38IpFsHC bMPRAQChSF2bTSbOiwGk+G1staojbYANRO43piaeoY/rZ8m7fgEA/LBpFVKHSV8M ugt7YSbxsY8i74YER9MldbIxTCd9WwI= =yPFz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --YKca981aoJ0Qm45jGoNlRSLtrWQ79U2Uz--