Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 11:52:47 +1000 From: Sue Blake <sue@welearn.com.au> To: Tim Gerchmez <fewtch@serv.net> Cc: David Wolfskill <dhw@whistle.com>, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A first encounter with 'vi' Message-ID: <19980619115247.49675@welearn.com.au> In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980618163903.007f6640@mx.serv.net>; from Tim Gerchmez on Thu, Jun 18, 1998 at 04:39:03PM -0700 References: <199806171941.MAA05868@pau-amma.whistle.com> <3.0.5.32.19980618163903.007f6640@mx.serv.net>
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On Thu, Jun 18, 1998 at 04:39:03PM -0700, Tim Gerchmez wrote:
> At 12:41 PM 6/17/98 -0700, David Wolfskill wrote:
>
> >>Why would there be nothing else around? You could stick gunzip and a
> >>gzip'ed version of ee on a single floppy disk and take it with you wherever
> >>you go, or probably ee or a similar editor would fit on a floppy just fine
> >>uncompressed.
> >
> >Because you're working on a system that doesn't *have* a floppy drive
> >(such as my Sun 3/60). Or it has one, but it's broken. Or the device
> >driver for the floppy is acting weird.
> >
> >(Floppies are actually rather unnatural I/O devices to some of us....)
>
>
> Point well taken.
>
>
> >Maybe that's OK, if you're *always* going to be using a set of
> >homogeneous systems... but that's not the reality many of us live in.
>
>
> It *does* all depend on what environment you're working in. Most PC's have
> a 3 1/2" 1.44 MB floppy drive (at least those that an administrator cares a
> little less about security on), it's become a ubiquitous standard, as do
> Macs. Other platforms, maybe not.
True, but consider how PCs are used these days. My server has no need for
a floppy drive, CD, mouse, sound card, etc. It just needs a hard disk a
screen and a keyboard, so that's what it's got. I'm not going to want to
boot off a floppy, so why should I leave that option available to any
potential intruder or pokey visitor? If it was needed for some emergency
I haven't thought of, I could temporarily grab the floppy drive from my
workstation and plug it in, I suppose, but I wouldn't go to that trouble
just to use an editor.
> >If you want to thus restrict yourself, go ahead... but I hate to see
> >someone do something like that without at least being aware of some
> >consequences that, in my experience, are likely to be encountered.
>
>
> OK, let me ask you this. Are there any other editors that are as
> ubiquitous as vi that may be a *little* easier to learn and use?
It's not just a matter of being ubiquitous. You also need something you
can use when the system is so screwed that the only thing you can mount
is the root filesystem.
>From what David said, it sounds like even vi might be hard to use then,
which I thought was not the case. It sounds like I'm even more justified
in my protest that since I can use ed I can totally ignore vi :-)
As an aside... ed reminds me of an editor I used many moons ago on a VAX,
maybe it had the same name. I wrote a 4000 word report with it, and used
it every day for a few weeks to enter and analyse data from a huge survey
with SPSS-X. Having never been near any computer before, I had no idea
that other editors existed, and nobody else realised I was using this
editor until the job was nearly over, so they didn't tell me there was
better available. I didn't feel at all deprived at the time. It goes to
show how important familiarity and expectations are in perceptions of
ease of use.
> Most machines have Pine/Pico installed as well, don't they?
No. Pine is regarded by some as a beginner's mail app, real men use elm
and all that jazz, but mutt is becoming the most popular these days.
None of these are installed by default. ISPs who provide shell accounts
ususally have pine, and therefore pico, available.
--
Regards,
-*Sue*-
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