From nobody Wed Jul 30 07:30:26 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bsP512L69z63KDb; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 07:30:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R11" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bsP511Y5jz3vJt; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 07:30:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1753860629; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=fOzBqJ2qCkbKRriCPjhNrcHMOmu1jN9f8QsFsPAuuMc=; b=C6Hwj/WJM4Q5RCs2XSwOBT1lgpAttuQWRJ0SzmBllxcvy8gkmN2PjPqPQedbx8yZNnaJIq UDQkXmReYFrrchh5VpAruvZ9wwB8SxQ5fvfH8vmgMlHT67G3sT4WWNzVb4eRkFolE03FVI 0245pKF1EwoBBV3qhWCPBGgNqmGQOQeZUgdGryAlilj8JyqNzIV1l4iOY4LAZfFf8xC1ET 0dcqjbjtUuW0NyFw/ARKFawVPFdroF+EeP2hEfM84MtnBF/y/ER8Z5Tw6ykq3IlxucXMuW blaqSPIbFseGwNEcBq1TKDfmYKLw9DcxlWMiVWFMlWtDpuRUYAp9+uUa5HP4hQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1753860629; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=fOzBqJ2qCkbKRriCPjhNrcHMOmu1jN9f8QsFsPAuuMc=; b=rpbGzbplGAA99CYXa/Xy4sDBXsGfwWdxx688B56uV2AtNKhvZQyeH/gEas1X0KC4nT/Dao wUpRiYdGfCA0VFl+I2F1IaW/cADc4bH4KuP+AxjAz/G7G8nmLspM/UMn/smrDWGfIL9MNz YW4J+FwW8lxg617Tul/Bz0AobT0pKwBcG2lmdPdP8E4qg6UCD/BKH+If0XvOSNrjIOnfYi PnXTA2EUuOvZEOp9dbtOW93kFkFSqi4uY1KeZUQXxI25RdZpnSIvXNZk+HZwMTk5svhGgM T+Wu0LWz4/t5iVvYu2/DOD5zVfjs7QMllvTpZV58+nyDA6imMrEsx1m++zNkBg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1753860629; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=qc9D9LXcrHX90lVlOblzJInEf26Ow0hAHG6EksEfNbfGIMVroHmbs6RAkYmfiaydYQ+e5B WdTpvgYqGjBcbVGqamT01aMl53pzo5gXbeI1+9x6OyYcDJ3XcOyEbLWxdrAb3fnBRpBVfL znRkNq/lRMl7jJ3WFuJr8i6rJQeodApbY7NDnLrrkNctNwK7BJz2VM31Pgtaw9hJ/dctHv OWwIiyEW/LvMzYPzlZWyHsKGRQgvQBV1srcp7E/TY9hKydxKmweGE7oBIbbXUJlSyQLf9/ xxh8jpi/qqZZrcoDxKAWaJEArjmt0oXr/y8DEDdmneUrcJpEt7O6diLrdKl3yw== Received: from b.nours.eu (b.nours.eu [54.38.177.57]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: bapt) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4bsP5071cLzrP6; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 07:30:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@freebsd.org) Received: by b.nours.eu (Postfix, from userid 1001) id B09C290F57; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 09:30:26 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2025 09:30:26 +0200 From: Baptiste Daroussin To: vermaden Cc: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature Message-ID: <2rpjsqnjda4s5ks6nye3cywec5numok6qrhpnniteawusr7wkg@du4fwkss2iyw> References: List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: On Wed 30 Jul 02:28, vermaden wrote: > Hi, > > after short discussion here: > - https://github.com/freebsd/pkg/issues/2485 > > I got REALLY concerned. > > One of THE features and selling points of a FreeBSD UNIX system is the 'untouchable' Base System. untouchable is really subjective and has always been, there are so many build options and one of the selling point for many is the customizability, in particular for the wildly deploy use case of appliances. But even on desktops people keeps tweaking the build options... > > Without PKGBASE all the features are preserved. > > But when You convert to PKGBASE its ... GONE! > > Consider this command: > > # pkg delete -af > > What it does? > > It removes all third party packages on 'classic' FreeBSD system without touching the FreeBSD Base System. No it remove all the packages. semantic matters. > > What the same "pkg delete -af" command does on a PKGBASE FreeBSD system? > > It kills/destroys almost all of the FreeBSD Base System and leaves only two PKGBASE packages called: > > - FreeBSD-clibs > - FreeBSD-runtime This is why the vital flag are designed for. > > All the rest of Base System is GONE. Destroyed. > > You do not even have vi(1) editor ad /rescue is separate not protected FreeBSD-rescue package and its also removed. > > WTF?! > > POLA is the principle that made FreeBSD such predictable system. Where is the POLA now? > > Why the same *pkg delete -af* command on 'classic' FreeBSD system without PKGBASE only removes all third party packages and the same *pkg delete -af* literally destroys most of the FreeBSD PKGBASE Base System? > > Its crazy ... Before jumping straight into making a drama, maybe ask for the plan? or discuss with people involved, or even better propose some help? The plan is the following for years: either create meta packages which will be flagged as vital for various combinaison of pkgbase: base, base-minimal, base-oci etc., etc. and use groups (marked as vital as well) if they are ready by then. This part has been delayed because: groups are now ready yet in pkg but might be there by the time 15.0-RELEASE is there. Bapt