From nobody Sat Dec 11 11:11:56 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2B0F18E00CA for ; Sat, 11 Dec 2021 11:12:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (static-24-113-41-81.wavecable.com [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "ultimatedns.net", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4JB4q62qpLz4kyC for ; Sat, 11 Dec 2021 11:12:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 1BBBBuY6099736 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 2021 03:12:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2021 03:11:56 -0800 From: Chris To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Benchmarks: FreeBSD 13 vs. NetBSD 9.2 vs. OpenBSD 7 vs. DragonFlyBSD 6 vs. Linux In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: UDNSMS/17.0 Message-ID: X-Sender: bsd-lists@bsdforge.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4JB4q62qpLz4kyC X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.00 / 15.00]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11404, ipnet:24.113.0.0/16, country:US]; local_wl_ip(0.00)[24.113.41.81] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On 2021-12-11 02:38, David Chisnall wrote: > While I agree on most of your points, the value of Phoronix is that it tests > the > default install. > > As an end user, I don’t care that a particular program is twice as fast on a > particular Linux distro as it is on FreeBSD because of kernel features, > compiler > options, or dependency choices. > > I would love to see the base system include the ThinLTO (LLVM IR) .a files > so that > I can do inlining from libc into my program. I would love for ports to > default to > ThinLTO unless they break with it. Apple flipped that switch a few years > ago, so > a lot of things that broke with ThinLTO are now fixed. > > The FreeBSD memcpy / memset implementations look like they’re slower than > the > latest ones, which can give a 5-10% perf boost on some workloads. LLVM just > landed the automemcpy framework, which is designed by some Google folks to > synthesises efficient memcpy implementations tailored to different > workloads. > > FreeBSD often wins versus glibc-based distros because jemalloc is faster > than > dlmalloc (the default malloc implementations in FreeBSD libc and glibc, > respectively). I’ve been using snmalloc in my libc for a while and it > generally > gives me a few percent more perf. Unfortunately, FreeBSD decided to expose > all of > the jemalloc non-standard functions from libc, which means I can’t > contribute it > to upstream without implementing all of those on top of snmalloc or it would > be an > ABI break. > > It would be great if someone could pick up the Phronix benchmark suite and > do some > profiling: where is FreeBSD spending more time than Linux? Are there > Linux-specific code paths that hit slow paths on FreeBSD and fast paths on > Linux > that could have FreeBSD-specific fast paths added (e.g. futex vs _umtx_op)? I think everyones (here) making good points on the comparisons made on/at Phronix. But given that the FreeBSD "default" install adds a fair amount of overhead to elicit good feedback for bugs/failures. It makes it a poor candidate (kernel) for comparing performance. Hell, dmesg(8) even throws a warning saying that performance will be encumbered. If they knew the BSD basics. They might be able to provide a more meaningful comparison. I'm going to add Creating a BSD vs Linux comparison to the Foundation Sponsored Request/poll recently posted on some of the mailing lists. It'd be great for promotion/advertising/evangelism. :-) -- Chris > > David > > >> On 11 Dec 2021, at 10:17, dmilith . wrote: >> >> 1. Where are compiler options for BSDs? >> 2. Why they compare -O2 to -O3 code in some benchmarks? Why they enable >> fast math in some, and disable it for others? >> 3. Why they don't mention powerd setup for FreeBSD? By default it may use >> slowest CPU mode. Did they even load cpufreq kernel module? >> 4. Did they even care about default FreeBSD mitigations (via sysctl) >> enabled, or it's only valid for Linuxes? ;) >> 5. What happened to security and environment details of BSDs? >> >> It's kinda known that guys from Phroenix lack basic knowledge of how to do >> proper performance testing and lack basic knowledge about BSD systems. >> Nothing new. Would take these results with a grain of salt. >> >> On Sat, 11 Dec 2021 at 10:53, beepc.ch wrote: >> >>>> I am surprised to see that the BSD cluster today has much worse >>> performance >>>> than Linux. >>>> What do you think of this? >>> >>> "Default" FreeBSD install setting are quite conservative. >>> The Linux common distros are high tuned, those benchmark is in my >>> opinion comparison of apples and oranges. >>> >>> Comparing "default" FreeBSD install with "default" Slackware install >>> would be more interesting, because Slackware builds are at most vanilla. >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Daniel Dettlaff >> Versatile Knowledge Systems >> verknowsys.com