From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu Apr 9 19:45:43 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D524827C9B0 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 19:45:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpeddiem@gmail.com) Received: from mail-il1-f173.google.com (mail-il1-f173.google.com [209.85.166.173]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48ys7q5KlQz49jL; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 19:45:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpeddiem@gmail.com) Received: by mail-il1-f173.google.com with SMTP id t6so844945ilj.8; Thu, 09 Apr 2020 12:45:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=wPfx0pkso1+G29Gyow2wRSd2pZOQBr/f+5pdl7oRBoQ=; b=jopxXc01bkaqMWhIXZRYBa1yi2E36D4XqGNOs59qgldHH7Cjvk9PBIQkaz/9WvKeov 6yL0gQ5SLG6m44jYezOGryuXp/bV6VVTIWzmErX2O6RaPxugiEczrVoUEDm9p1RWzmgH +TfsPzXSdThnM1WT/78oQG1fGQRMZroScS7HpVMgNQ5+wdPdWVKlFQg1AARPxDOBAEE/ jwtVRN5pGLhQHHPd1oV+pIYsSD1p4m05S8YFPPDhZ5RrQeu9LGS8//obIcaMbePUPcHE 5eNbnK04aTMARK+KCnlvwAyZ7U9vERQRyvmdsrvL1T91ft51L6wwN3jmaLyv290/jEU5 H5Rg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuYQvh0Q9j3cdKMi+ijXkZdafcHAPQZL+acJBKSRnab83weIrAj9 /EPHJ7ihuz+IZWu73RtkMdshpKy97WcGZD52Rcwz+g== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypLh7gRCznroP2EZ/ZrScWQ8P9bbogq2Z6/buUDVBm6gEiMmYs444s9NtKclAvbzOEUuwg2Cy36TrH+sx+YcG9k= X-Received: by 2002:a92:41c7:: with SMTP id o190mr1486166ila.11.1586461542256; Thu, 09 Apr 2020 12:45:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Ed Maste Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 15:45:30 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Ars Technica article on FreeBSD new user experience To: Kyle Evans Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 48ys7q5KlQz49jL X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.00 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 19:45:43 -0000 On Thu, 9 Apr 2020 at 15:34, Kyle Evans wrote: > > 2. re: default shell and niceties: complete agreement, IMO we should > at least have basically usable history at a minimum Complete agreement here, although in 13-CURRENT /bin/sh is surprisingly usable. I'm normally a zsh user, but after using /bin/sh on a new laptop I've found !$ is the only thing I strongly miss. > 3. re: `pkg search xorg` -- that makes sense, given "pkg search xorg > returns too many hits to fit on a single page of a text-mode console". Indeed, I think the article is technically incorrect, but the usability problem is the same; if `pkg search xorg` returns more than a screenfull of results and the desired one scrolled away, does it really matter that it's actually present? There are some usability improvements that could be made with pkg / pkg search, but really a new user should trivially be able to get a graphical environment running, before they'd have any reason to `pkg search` anything.