From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 25 01:19:07 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D8CD95AF; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 01:19:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-wi0-x230.google.com (mail-wi0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F00FA83B; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 01:19:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-wi0-f176.google.com with SMTP id fb4so7966043wid.15 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 2014 18:19:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=8tZOTS76UArNEQSLjc/yoE3VEll0sT926E0wtD+XCH8=; b=PYdTWTos2MqL5Ttk8RVBUriosECo38q5sv0wlfUPWNqg7ojVQ+aAzrQnNq/QyVP9Rl 3NShV+/KNNVgPgg9EqF9LQbpBTJGz05YqdVnmhVibaaEKbPjASe5QvtRozrux2+bXMUn KL9aCzCyfv5o5WwFW+Ih+UGfQr83YH1VjNmys6ac1gfPbFh5TXGovGn8m/zwtN9v2uJH yOR2pUZgk7bhN0zgEK0y8tC26hr2JaU2wnj7xz2N7z2wprHq2EnuP3AXJhuldDGQDilm TQcGTX5wkd+fj7QhM98g1Ksqa+ZBzFB/Kn7j4lG64WAgLR6iGMCk9NatL0QbWCBDNfS2 sPKg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.219.193 with SMTP id pq1mr11996818wjc.5.1411607945105; Wed, 24 Sep 2014 18:19:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.161.228 with HTTP; Wed, 24 Sep 2014 18:19:05 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <53FBC329.6020107@freebsd.org> References: <3D62F4F4-ECCF-4622-BB57-D028160F3451@freebsd.org> <157901cfbe83$6cbf18d0$463d4a70$@FreeBSD.org> <16e101cfbfee$42b3b930$c81b2b90$@FreeBSD.org> <5FE57E4E-A627-4ABA-AB73-F0D60A3602D5@ixsystems.com> <236878C4-2C3E-4744-A04B-736C91032BFC@felyko.com> <96E32478-5450-4A35-B68A-4791668AA701@ixsystems.com> <53FBC329.6020107@freebsd.org> Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 22:19:05 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Lua in the bootloader From: Pedro Arthur To: Pedro Giffuni X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 01:37:14 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.18-1 Cc: "Wojciech A. Koszek" , "" , "" , Jordan Hubbard , Rui Paulo X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 01:19:08 -0000 Hi, I've done some updates about the issues (1,2, 4, 6, 8) reviewed. I would like you to review these changes, following is my wiki page updated and the files changed. wiki head/sys/boot/lua/core.lua head/sys/boot/lua/menu.lua head/sys/boot/lua/screen.lua Thanks, Pedro. 2014-08-25 20:13 GMT-03:00 Pedro Giffuni : > > On 08/25/14 01:27, Jordan Hubbard wrote: > >> ... >> >>> The limitation of the dictionary and the size of the stack isn't the >>> main reason why I would prefer lua over forth. Why do we need to subje= ct >>> ourselves to a stack based language in 2014? The very limited number o= f >>> people hacking on the Forth boot loader on FreeBSD might have a differe= nt >>> opinion, but the language is so arcane that I fail to see why we should= n't >>> replace it. >>> >> Again, no disagreement, though I do wonder how many Lua programmers >> FreeBSD has that will be able to hit the ground running as a result of t= his >> evolution. Anyone? Raise your hands! I can=E2=80=99t raise mine - I= =E2=80=99ve never >> used Lua. :) >> >> - Jordan >> > > One one hand we have Forth which seems to be under-appreciated. I would > think that it is still better than nothing, but then nothing is what othe= r > people use and they are not complaining (perhaps because they don't know > what they are missing? I don't know). > > On the other hand there is Lua: If we do a quick look in the net for Lua > related code we can find many examples. It seems like there is a new > generation of game developers that are very fond of Lua, to the point tha= t > it is more popular than Python in gaming. Other than Angry Birds, I am al= so > seeing Lua embedded in Apache httpd, Trafficserver, VLC, there is even a > Forth implemented in Lua! To put it someway: Lua absolutely looks better > than forth in your resume. > > FWIW, although somewhat oldish, this looks like an interesting thing to > play with > http://lua-cui.sourceforge.net/ > > And there's also this: > https://code.google.com/p/llvm-lua/ > > No equivalents for Forth, AFAICT. > > This said, while Lua seems to be powerful and exciting, it is not the > mighty thing we want everywhere. Apparently Grub2 at some point embedded > Lua and later reverted it. NetBSD introduced Lua in their kernel but > apparently has found no use for it. DragonFly's installer had an old Lua > backend that they removed (they also removed bootforth very early). > > Options are good, I welcome the Lua option and I will love to see how far > it goes but let's not get too excited about the imminent death of Forth > just yet. Ultimately, being Devin the driving force behind the bootloader > enhancements, I think he is in the best position to choose. > > Pedro. >