From owner-freebsd-sparc64@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 10 19:09:55 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED2A0106564A for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 19:09:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carton@Ivy.NET) Received: from sakima.Ivy.NET (sakima.Ivy.NET [IPv6:2610:1f8:dc:41:220:edff:fe27:e764]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 232068FC1D for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 19:09:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carton@Ivy.NET) Received: from castrovalva.Ivy.NET (castrovalva.Ivy.NET [IPv6:2610:1f8:dc:c0::3]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by sakima.Ivy.NET (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43932A8069 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 15:08:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by castrovalva.Ivy.NET (Postfix, from userid 405) id 68EF512FD0D; Tue, 10 Jun 2008 15:09:53 -0400 (EDT) To: freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org References: <6e5cf6a70806051341x95eb814j6222c04dbfd7fb2d@mail.gmail.com> <20080609211208.GA66541@alchemy.franken.de> <20080609231419.F13655@ury.york.ac.uk> <484DBB64.5050607@FreeBSD.org> <20080609234022.GA18959@soaustin.net> From: Miles Nordin MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="pgp-sign-Multipart_Tue_Jun_10_15:09:41_2008-1"; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 15:09:53 -0400 In-Reply-To: <20080609234022.GA18959@soaustin.net> (Mark Linimon's message of "Mon, 9 Jun 2008 18:40:22 -0500") Message-ID: User-Agent: T-gnus/6.17.2 (based on No Gnus v0.2) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.7 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Sanj=F2?=) APEL/10.6 Emacs/21.4 (alpha--netbsd) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) Subject: Re: status of freebsd on ultrasparc? X-BeenThere: freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Sparc List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 19:09:56 -0000 --pgp-sign-Multipart_Tue_Jun_10_15:09:41_2008-1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >>>>> "ml" == Mark Linimon writes: ml> We need more people using and testing on sparc64 and ml> contributing fixes back. It's as simple as that. IMHO if we deliver a platform with a working web browser for two minor stable releases in a row, we're likely to have more testers. but the key phrase is ``and contributing fixes back.'' More testing by users who don't have the time, interest, or ability to create their own fixes doesn't seem to me useful to sparc64 at this stage. Another thing that might help is to pick some favoured pieces of hardware and clearly specify what works and what doesn't. like ``the IDE controller works but can't burn CD's'' or ``the network card works but doesn't autodetect duplex reliably.'' The current plan with most less-equal BSD architectures seems to be: advertise as ``working'' whatever you'd like people to test, and wait for them to report otherwise. When they do, ignore the report and ask if it's still broken in the latest version which of course they haven't tested yet. ``buy a 200lb 1000watt machine on eBay, and test it for us and let us know what you find,'' just doesn't work for me at all. I think only someone who wants to be a FreeBSD/sparc64 developer would (or should) do that. I guess it would be nice to run on more SPARC hardware but I'm not sure how sustainable it is to get and keep FreeBSD running on hardware that developers don't posess themselves, or can't afford to leave plugged in. Ultimately it looks more and more to me like, whether the software is free or not, achieving high enough quality to get work done requires a paid support contract where attention gets focused onto the bugs reported by the people who are paying. With Solaris or Linux you can sometimes get high quality without paying by looking over the shoulders of the people with support contracts and trying to get as close as convenient to what they're doing so that the two of you will run into the same bugs. I don't know how to pull this trick with FreeBSD. Are there specific bits of sparc64 hardware FreeBSD uses for build labs, that non-fixing users can buy the exact same thing and benefit from fixes developers do to keep the build lab running? The problem is, even if you do this, you gain the ability to: build FreeBSD. not to run a web browser, because all the developers just use some proprietary browser under Mac OS X that supports FLASH. so it's a useless strategy. --pgp-sign-Multipart_Tue_Jun_10_15:09:41_2008-1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (NetBSD) iQCVAwUASE7RgYnCBbTaW/4dAQKzAAQAoYc7/1dBpvMBfdCrFoWXmLXS4GUcTeTB fMxWHoyn+VOuMMKpFxa9zgnbtpFZPBRDRiafHJRQSCcZuiyAZ9bwQGETP2JLcFTZ ruQaBKy6M3HSVAEpxfJIIJZEKjfF0+wu6R84ED2EzCLfBcOvcWtlvS+GHrUgpqXZ 0FYbJK8n8ok= =lzF6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --pgp-sign-Multipart_Tue_Jun_10_15:09:41_2008-1--