From nobody Thu Apr 27 17:19:59 2023 X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Q6jD12TdJz47hNJ for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2023 17:20:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Q6jD11v0Gz3r52; Thu, 27 Apr 2023 17:20:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1682616001; h=from:from:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding; bh=lOl3ZlFJG5xIj7VoSgMcYmRZj/yPnZLjSl3an8A9NFc=; b=yzwr4F+2aD8VtOxu7jTsNLaimSjZPClse7q4xpPnrggyaiLi2M5B5qr+RaVEiOn5fUFIrX mAvoWxFSVPukvRhcdkvFqhwlob+tJuHJsYPkC0fe4nCizM0EP87rhk28mSueODug92+/Vp Lgfq4DztCxAhqt9vVuc7HMfqnKO3DjdmkAaNst53yHhuGf3nLvUi1pBo5/MWeynQHBdI69 gO0RsJd5/uIZ2DBtLnu8h0Q1aIKFT9fTTsgYpiXgz1Tilfot9K8koMwY33DpBY/q9KpO+8 ou0QJCmEO2HjREg+AwxEtsqBl27tZ3ggjYfRCFzXuLNyohtZJVnKkxBCchpixA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1682616001; h=from:from:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding; bh=lOl3ZlFJG5xIj7VoSgMcYmRZj/yPnZLjSl3an8A9NFc=; b=hKmmMWqtoNOECVg3rqq2o4yjxzH3JzA5xcDnjicGrxy2b80abzdLBPLcdB92Hic4K1fzVl I5pmgEGhCC0CSod+lY9sHgCShajWy6dyURTx2Us47qlBomKGrXhW4vnlg6nTvFbvf1haan N51Ml2b1W36CFe4GbZMnbMamvpwrSl1GmlbD9Z8CbZNiFPJ0rFlbfa6GujaHKSgOC4eYYo MAba1j3dZE2LOwuZ41BTIbjcvJVHDlxzRApoQAZOGbNh80anOd3ZllouIdsNbRmXN7DeS+ v2SGx3l33AGO9e7zeD0gSPHArdNXclIcQBVTpuwBS0ooPaZMSnJxM4cTCLiOHw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1682616001; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=tqf+SMNI2XplzK8rZbjdnd6VVNJRKdPip4LU5hArQdKWCXTQT1+yySx24BnkIyHqoxeOH8 aFjLmIcDGuXmdeq5ozs4wPk2N46MDD74CzgFetebFVBlbFa093IBfBsptM7zLy6e/YDk32 WY1Ff+NqO/hnk56p5OTiDxNHbI09W0y9sjnY2pTiZg1EJyA3aakHgwuWd2oEKAOk9U0OQ0 6c7yvVadELYHk7VeGDnkefo//PrBD/jLyjZzC2CMwLBQa87gXdwn77NUzEzwq9gQcRdpw+ 9SGiICzwo3tnElGojdSxCATr8wHbu44a+syHzd97YY84ok3nHuvOPSzg2yvLrA== Received: from [IPV6:2601:648:8680:16b0:4873:5c14:f13a:ffd7] (unknown [IPv6:2601:648:8680:16b0:4873:5c14:f13a:ffd7]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: jhb) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Q6jD04mm4z18SB; Thu, 27 Apr 2023 17:20:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2023 10:19:59 -0700 List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-arch List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.10.0 Content-Language: en-US From: John Baldwin To: 'freebsd-arch' Reply-To: 'freebsd-arch' Subject: Future of 32-bit platforms (including i386) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N For 13.0, i386 was demoted from Tier 1 to Tier 2. In the announcement of this for 13.0, the project committed to an update on i386's future around the time of 14.0. The announcement at the time suggested that i386 would be supported less in 14.x than in 13.x. My proposal is that for 14.x we treat i386 like any other Tier 2 platform. That is, release images and packages would only be provided on a best-effort basis, and we would not guarantee providing them. I think we should also stop shipping binary updates for the base system (freebsd-update) for 14.x for i386. A larger question is what to do about 32-bit platforms moving forward. My proposal for powerpc, i386, and armv[67] is that we say publicly that we anticipate not supporting them in 15. That is, that we may remove them outright from the tree, or we may leave them in the tree, but we do not plan on building packages or release images. Another option to consider for 32-bit platforms perhaps in 15 is to remove kernel support and only retain the ability to build userland. The goal of saying this now-ish (or about the time 14.0 is going to ship) would be to give time for users and developers to respond in the window between 14.0 and 15.0 so we can evaluate those responses as an input into the final decision for 15. -- John Baldwin