Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 10:14:52 +0100 From: Remko Lodder <remko@FreeBSD.org> To: Warren Block <wblock@wonkity.com> Cc: "freebsd-doc@freebsd.org" <freebsd-doc@freebsd.org>, Xin LI <d@delphij.net>, Warren Block <wblock@FreeBSD.org> Subject: Re: Translations (was Re: svn commit: r43974 - head/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/advanced-networking) Message-ID: <B3ED89A2-6692-4B51-98BF-3F47081800AE@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1402172145010.42338@wonkity.com> References: <201402180226.s1I2QS0x076422@svn.freebsd.org> <5302C7B9.7090208@delphij.net> <alpine.BSF.2.00.1402171940210.42338@wonkity.com> <5302E05F.1050200@delphij.net> <alpine.BSF.2.00.1402172145010.42338@wonkity.com>
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--Apple-Mail=_8490BBE2-1C7D-46FC-8D88-9822E828386F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 On 18 Feb 2014, at 06:19, Warren Block <wblock@wonkity.com> wrote: > On Mon, 17 Feb 2014, Xin Li wrote: >=20 >> (redirecting to freebsd-doc@) >=20 > Subject changed. >=20 >> On 2/17/14, 7:10 PM, Warren Block wrote: >>>=20 >>> I'm sorry, these multiple whitespace changes were my fault due to >>> a mixup with Allan Jude's original patch. Normally, it would have >>> been a single commit. >>>=20 >>> I apologize for this difficulty. >>=20 >> Well, please don't take it too personally :) >=20 > Thanks. :) >=20 >>> Would it help if these changes were reverted with a "reverse merge" >>> of r43920, r43921, r43973, r43974, and r43975, then recommitted >>> with the whitespace patches combined, or is it too late for that? >>=20 >> I think using a batch of commits instead of one big commit is >> generally a good idea because the diff is easier to read/merge. What >> makes it hard to track is when the space changes are made in larger >> timespan as they would be harder to ignore them or need more manual >> intervention. >=20 > I think I understand. Part of my difficulty is being monolingual, = it's hard for me to see exactly what translators do. Benedict has = explained it to me, but it sounds so difficult to track changes that = it's hard to believe anyone can keep up with it. >=20 > (Oh, and if those changes need to be reverted, let's do that as soon = as possible.) The main part that we do for nl_NL is that we diff the English version = from the revision that our current workset is based upon, to a defined = workset later in time. (For my project at work I set the revision to work = towards in stone to keep it manageable). that means you will get a svn diff = r1:r2 $file (like svn diff -r 40588:43328 = en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/basics/chapter.xml ) That gives a lot of output that we need to parse through; style and = whitespace changes increase the amount of changes we need to read through. A space = or tab (or EOL character) is a change that we need to spot -> more of those = changes -> more work to get the content in sync again. My project at work is not able to keep up with the =91content spree=92 = that Dru is doing to make things better. Good work, but a drama for translation = teams that need to be in sync first (and with a train that moves so fast, it will = remain out of date). >=20 >>> If there is any way I or other committers can make this easier for >>> translators, please post on the -doc mailing list or to me >>> invididually. >>=20 >> One thing I would recommend is to separate the contents that do not >> need translation (e.g. tags, entities, etc.) and contents that needs >> translation. This way, these contents would serve as a positioning >> blocks when merging from upstream (English). >=20 > That sounds interesting, and leads well into the next part: Afair we do not translate those for nl_NL unless it is really needed. I think that the normal English version for those kind of things is = really what we need ;) >=20 >>> We are also trying to modernize the translation process, and >>> automate some of the work that translators are currently forced to >>> do. Anyone who would like to help with that is welcome. >>=20 >> That would be great! How can we help, or is there some kind of TODO = list? >=20 > There are several things that would be helpful. >=20 > We could use help from people who are experienced with using the = .po/.pot/.mo tools (gettext) on other platforms. >=20 > The basic process is to separate all the content from the markup = automatically. Then an editor can be used to add translations, and the = tool puts a translated file back together from it. This allows the = translation program to remember existing translations, so translating = one document helps translate others. >=20 > textproc/itstool is one of the automatic separator programs. I've = been somewhat stymied trying to figure out how to get the Python libxml2 = implementation used by it to find FreeBSD documentation XML catalogs. = Documentation on this is... let's just say sparse. >=20 > The PC-BSD folks are using tools like Pootle, but not for DocBook (as = far as I know). They have a web site for translation, useful as an = example of what can be done: http://pootle.pcbsd.org/ >=20 > Benedict (CCed) has made some progress with some of these tools. I = think there are plans to add a page to the wiki, but don't know if it is = present yet. Do note that translating strings of text might have a dramatic result; = especially in non english versions, one translation might fit the one line but the = other line wouldn=92t fit. Although ofcourse this sounds interesting there is much = more to it. (we do not have a set of predefined things we mention like $_[LANG] =3D = =93The bird flew over the house=94; which is used once or perhaps twice. We have = =91rolling=92 content like a book. Cheers Remko > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-doc@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-doc > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-doc-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" --=20 /"\ Best regards, | remko@FreeBSD.org \ / Remko Lodder | remko@EFnet X http://www.evilcoder.org/ | / \ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Against HTML Mail and News --Apple-Mail=_8490BBE2-1C7D-46FC-8D88-9822E828386F Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJTAySMAAoJEKjD27JZ84ywxvAQAIfUuCDU9j4qiXCco6d8/XFf /HxmrOC/ks05drr/f9SGiZ9H6dsiztg1Kpt6GsmNbVbAIK5BrJ4m9/njDz4AEPyG xuNPmWSqZarAG/9/VoFIfyeK16FQGNP50kbmzPZSIm1crbvncI2wgz5HGbkQUWCl c9mSYOfKrmlYoZNkdj0PnTZSBhOLWbUAnri1LAqFEGHNCHtWhsh8nERcj0hqoO+A uWpz0hruHZ5yuJB7hB7Q/jC+mffHhuf/pqcsYaGcs8LCnPiwnJjCla+tHjlHKL5+ xuGi8RNXeRx7TgBfic2wEgBMKXM0wHqfJEyBud23/zH5wPHBPA8+Zy/Vuv/A+Jlw hFR1auJ0xKX8otf41nLNlNV7SoRdVS9b5SQfpa+HLc0NRYMWpyXQ4Ze4fWbjIy7C RtwfGlhILaclWpYDBFFmuAECqDqnmb6TO5fHJi7wlujN53tiu9eyeVL3ipzqbUTH NeSxJTz400wBufpVOAybt5D8HqAmSLV9o8ecc5t79UrzRDF2IoGZ2xEAxHGUsqsV ANsFtZo+EWUXMNpgaEoJRWbu8XJvmxDwSL67QszCKAVGN5AezmhO+7e0mTDucSw+ iOsyjqcNG2/Vw/5hn1rn65YJsSEFa56lz31AvkJSq+C2sGInL/WCylN0hcOS3cgx yevSL6NQLpmNA7HXHVIM =cFLs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_8490BBE2-1C7D-46FC-8D88-9822E828386F--
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