From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 22 00:42:16 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 172921065670 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2009 00:42:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gpeel@thenetnow.com) Received: from thenetnow.com (constellation.thenetnow.com [207.112.4.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DA488FC0A for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2009 00:42:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gpeel@thenetnow.com) Received: from hpeel.ody.ca ([216.240.12.2] helo=GRANT) by constellation.thenetnow.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1MTPuP-000JRM-VY; Tue, 21 Jul 2009 20:42:14 -0400 Message-ID: <534AF36AC3BE4B3581FFB7756DD9ADFC@GRANT> From: "Grant Peel" To: "Christopher J. Umina" References: <25A3192F31A344B99F50583BDC58C921@GRANT> <85A4A9F5895D4CDCAEDF23E8181A118D@GRANT><4A6535A2.90707@studsvikscandpower.com><26D9A85FF5344B9CA8F5DCDA1AFFBC46@GRANT><4A66368C.3010009@studsvikscandpower.com> <4A6656F2.50909@studsvikscandpower.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 20:42:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Cc: questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NFS- SAN - FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 00:42:16 -0000 Chris, Again, thanks for the info. I only have one server with a PERC (raid) card installed, and I beleive it is an older PERC 3 DCI, and doubt it would do the job. I would not be able to add more PERC cards to the other machines. I am looking to have the connections all done via Ethernet. Again, the connections would be local (device to my switch, switch to the individual servers). Does this mean I should be considering iSCSI, or, since the connections will all be on a local network, that I can continue to consider NFS? Any takers? -Grant ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher J. Umina" To: "Grant Peel" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 8:01 PM Subject: Re: NFS- SAN - FreeBSD > Grant, > > DAS = Direct-Attached Storage, sorry to be confusing. > > I cannot personally speak to the performance of FreeBSD's NFS, but I > wouldn't expect it to be the bottleneck in the situation described. Maybe > others with more experience could chime in on this topic. > > The way to use a DAS is to connect the DAS to a server with an external > SAS cable (or two). The PERC6/E controller you would need inside the > server is very well supported in FreeBSD. The DAS system would basically > act the same as internal disks would act (in the case of the MD1000). Of > course you'll want to check with Dell before you make any purchases to be > positive that your hardware will all communicate nicely, as I'm no Dell > salesperson. > > Depending on how large of an array you plan to make (if larger than 2TB) > you may have to investigate gpart/gpt to partition correctly, but that's > quite simple in my experience. > > Chris > > Grant Peel wrote: >> Chris, >> >> Thanks for the insight! >> >> I will defineately investigate that DAS ... although I am not (yet) sure >> what the acronym means, I am sure it is something akin to "Direct Access >> SCSI". >> >> You are quite right, I would like to use NFS to connect the device to the >> 6 servers I have, again, it would be only hosting the /home partition for >> each of them. Do you know if there would be any NFS I/O slowdowns using >> it in that fassion? Would freebsd support (on the storage device) that >> many connections? >> >> Also, do the Dell DAS machines run with FreeBSD? >> >> Also, from you you explained, I doubt I really need the versatility of >> the SAN at this point, or in the near future. I simply want a mass /home >> storage unit. >> >> -Grant >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher J. Umina" >> >> To: "Grant Peel" >> Cc: >> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 5:43 PM >> Subject: Re: NFS- SAN - FreeBSD >> >> >>> Grant, >>> >>> I mean to say that often times external SCSI solutions (direct attached) >>> are cheaper and perform better (in terms of I/O) than iSCSI SANs. >>> Especially if you're using many disks. SANs are generally chosen for >>> the ability to be split into LUNs for different servers. Think of it as >>> a disk which you can partition and serve out to servers on a >>> per-partition basis, over Ethernet. That's essentially what an iSCSI >>> SAN does. While DAS systems allow the same sort of configuration, they >>> don't serve out over Ethernet, only SCSI/SAS. >>> >>> Since you plan to use NFS to share the files to the other servers, I >>> think it may make more sense for you to use a SCSI solution if yo don't >>> need the versatility of a SAN. >>> >>> Of course I know nothing of how you plan to expand this system, but from >>> what I understand, with Dell DAS hardware it is possible to connect up >>> to 4 different servers to the DAS and expand to up to 6 15 disk >>> enclosures. The MD3000i (iSCSI) expands only to 3. >>> >>> Another issue is that without compiling in special versions of the iSCSI >>> initiator, even in 8.0-BETA2 (which is not production-ready), iSCSI >>> performance and reliability are terrible. There are other versions of >>> the code (which I currently use) for the iscsi_initiator kernel module, >>> but unless you're comfortable doing that, you may consider DAS in terms >>> of ease of implementation and maintenance as well. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> Grant Peel wrote: >>>> Chris, >>>> >>>> I don't know what a direct attached array is..... >>>> >>>> What I was just thinking was move all of the servers /home directory to >>>> a huge NFS mount. >>>> >>>> If you have the time to elaborate fursther, I would apprciate it... >>>> >>>> This iSCSI think has me entrigued, but I must admit I know little about >>>> it at this point. >>>> >>>> -Grant >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher J. Umina" >>>> >>>> To: "Grant Peel" >>>> Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 11:27 PM >>>> Subject: Re: NFS- SAN - FreeBSD >>>> >>>> >>>>> Grant, >>>>> >>>>> I have to ask, is there a reason you're intent on going with a SAN >>>>> versus a direct-attached array? >>>>> >>>>> Chris >>>>> >>>>> Grant Peel wrote: >>>>>> Thanks for the reply. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have not used/investigated the iSCSI thing yet.... >>>>>> >>>>>> The original question is can I just use an NFS mount to the storage's >>>>>> /home partition? >>>>>> >>>>>> -Grant >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: mojo fms To: Grant Peel Cc: >>>>>> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 4:21 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: NFS- SAN - FreeBSD >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> You would be better off at least having the SAN on 1gb ethernet or >>>>>> even better tripple 1gb (on a 100mb switch should be fine but you >>>>>> need failover for higher avaliability) ethernet for latency and >>>>>> failover reasons with a hot backup on the network controller. I dont >>>>>> see why you could not do this, its just iscsi connection normally so >>>>>> there is not a big issue getting freebsd to connect to it. We run 2 >>>>>> of the 16tb powervault which does pretty well for storage, one runs >>>>>> everything and the other is a replicated offsite backup. Performance >>>>>> wise, it really depends on how many servers you have pulling data >>>>>> from the SAN and how hard the IO works on the current servers. If >>>>>> you have 100 servers you might push the IO a bit but but it should be >>>>>> fine if your not serving more than 2Mb/s out to everyone, the servers >>>>>> and disks are going to cache a fair amount of always used data. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:52 AM, Grant Peel >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> I am assuming by the lack of response, my question to too long >>>>>> winded, let me re-phrase: >>>>>> >>>>>> What kind of performance might I expect if I load FreeBSD 7.2 on >>>>>> a 24 disk, Dell PowerVault when its only mission is to serve as a >>>>>> local area storage unit (/home). Obviously, to store all users /home >>>>>> data. Throug an NFS connection via fast (100m/b) ethernet. Each >>>>>> connecting server (6) contain about 200 domains? >>>>>> >>>>>> -Grant >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Peel" >>>>>> >>>>>> To: >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 10:35 AM >>>>>> Subject: NFS- SAN - FreeBSD >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> Up to this point, all of our servers are standalone, i.e. all >>>>>> services and software required are installed on each local server. >>>>>> >>>>>> Apache, Exim, vm-pop3d, Mysql, etc etc. >>>>>> >>>>>> Each local server is connected to the Inet via a VLAN (WAN), to >>>>>> our colo's switch. >>>>>> >>>>>> Each server contains about 300 domains, each domain has its own >>>>>> IP. >>>>>> >>>>>> Each sever is also connected to a VLAN (LAN) via the same (Dell >>>>>> 48 Port managed switch). >>>>>> >>>>>> We have been considering consolidating all users data from each >>>>>> server to a central (local), storage unit. >>>>>> >>>>>> While I do have active nfs's running (for backups etc), on the >>>>>> LAN only, I have never attempted to create 1 mass storage unit. >>>>>> >>>>>> So I suppose the questions are: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1) Is there any specific hardware that anyone might reccommend? >>>>>> I want to stick with FreeBSD as the OS as I am quite comfortable >>>>>> admining it, >>>>>> >>>>>> 2) Would anyone reccomend NOT using FreeBSD? Why? >>>>>> >>>>>> 3) Assuming I am using FreeBSD as the storage systems OS, could >>>>>> NFS simply be used? >>>>>> >>>>>> 4) Considering out whole Inet traffic runs about 2 Mb/s, is >>>>>> there any reason the port to the Storage unit should be more than 100 >>>>>> M/b (would it be imparative to use 1 G/b transfer)? >>>>>> >>>>>> TIA, >>>>>> >>>>>> -Grant >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list >>>>>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions >>>>>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to >>>>>> "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list >>>>>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions >>>>>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to >>>>>> "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- Who knew >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list >>>>>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions >>>>>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to >>>>>> "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > >