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[77.37.180.76]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 2adb3069b0e04-59e465d86f4sm2634055e87.48.2026.02.09.12.58.59 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 09 Feb 2026 12:58:59 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2026 23:58:55 +0300 From: Vadim Goncharov To: Graham Perrin Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: FreBSD pkgbase MUST be ebandoned Message-ID: <20260209235855.7de86893@nuclight.lan> In-Reply-To: References: <0iqhe92aheNJohSnhh8-hXkXhQsaRG4D64nLTlTSIPgd6Iit07IwlMwmn-mIS-Qtp9KuZElphybTlYDIVTUDcVGpHWaUbQVGPKt53NSL5Jg=@proton.me> <1678741437.20260206163514@yahoo.com> <07af999d-3c7b-4fe2-8ed2-a37cf89b663b@quip.cz> <20260206230926.50c6afed@nuclight.lan> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.21.0 (GTK+ 2.24.33; amd64-portbld-freebsd13.5) List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4f8xrX6mVKz3YmY X-Spamd-Bar: ---- On Mon, 9 Feb 2026 03:31:04 +0000 Graham Perrin wrote: > On 06/02/2026 20:09, Vadim Goncharov wrote: > > =E2=80=A6 Goung to pkgbase as it is designed currently is a way to have= all > > problems of Linux distros upgrades known for decades. =20 >=20 > Please, don't conflate. Huh, where? This is absolutely the same approach "everything is a package, managed by same utility". > > As pkg regularly fuckups even with ports, it will be more serious with > > base. =E2=80=A6 =20 >=20 >=20 > I think not. Your "think" is not backed by any evidence. I, however, regularly see probl= ems with pkg(8), for example, freshest was my desktop's update month ago after which every pkg invocation gives bunch of: pkg: glib-bootstrap: duplicate dependency listing: python311 pkg: glib-bootstrap: duplicate dependency listing: python311 pkg: glib: duplicate dependency listing: python311 pkg: libdbusmenu: duplicate dependency listing: python311 pkg: libdbusmenu: duplicate dependency listing: python311 pkg: gtk3: duplicate dependency listing: python311 pkg: py311-evdev: duplicate dependency listing: python311 pkg: py311-evdev: duplicate dependency listing: python311 pkg: libwacom: duplicate dependency listing: python311 pkg: libwacom: duplicate dependency listing: python311 pkg: libinput: duplicate dependency listing: python311 pkg: libinput: duplicate dependency listing: python311 pkg: py311-lz4: duplicate dependency listing: python311 [...] While I was said there was some problems at cluster exactly at start of January "and fix will be mirrored in a day-two", nothing was recovered by itself. OK, those above are looking harmless (pkg seems to work) and I could dig into code and SQLite and try to fix them, but that is not for ordinary user. Another case I was seeing is complains in January in local-language Telegram chat about pkgbase - something was repackaged, and man struggled with it for many days. His English is poor so he did not file beug report, and this aga= in shows unreadyness of pkgbase - I expect vast majority of users to have problems with it delayed till FreeBSD 16 - anyone had functional tests for = pkg for this case already? No? Quite expectable. Another case I've in same chat from same man today: Installed packages to be REMOVED: pkg: 2.0.6 Number of packages to be removed: 1 Number of packages to be installed: 51 Number of packages to be upgraded: 348 The operation will free 1 GiB. Proceed with this action? [y/N]: y Child process pid=3D16021 terminated abnormally: Segmentation fault Guess what state system now had, haha! And what's if it pkgbase? The quality of pkg is poor (as overall quality of ports is lower than base), but still it always was "acceptable" exactly because base system: * is in existence * is distinct from packages i.e. even in catastrophic event you could recover by just deleting /usr/loc= al and /var/db/pkg starting like a "fresh" install. With pkgbase there will be *NO* such safe ground. So, the pkgbase project, as it is in it's current form, MUST be abandoned (yeah, in a sense by RFC 2119) and something much serious and mission-critical should be made instead. That is, by Murphy's laws, with primary focus on what can happen bad and thus how to deal with it, instead = of childish "oh, we have working code, let's just use it". --=20 WBR, @nuclight