Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:28:13 -0800 From: Wes Peters <wes@softweyr.com> To: Bob Johnson <stest033@garbonzo.hos.ufl.edu> Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Server or Desktop OS? Message-ID: <3DDA90CD.387D6C9A@softweyr.com> References: <20021117115616.T301-100000@extortion.peterh.dropbear.id.au> <3DD6EEA0.AD524CA2@ene.asda.gr> <200211171306.31020.stest033@garbonzo.hos.ufl.edu>
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Bob Johnson wrote:
>
> On Saturday 16 November 2002 08:19 pm, Lefteris Tsintjelis wrote:
> > It sure is misleading. Why is it called -stable then? You would expect
> > to stand up to its name.
>
> It is called -stable because once upon a time it was intended to
> BE stable. Commits to -stable were only supposed to happen after
> they had been well tested in -current.
This still applies, however the additional release branches were
created because it is virtually impossible to MFC any feature of
substantial size without introducing *some* instability in -STABLE.
On the whole, the -STABLE branch is quite stable, but that says
little about the stability at any random point in time. The stable
branch releases have very little change and no new features at all
after the release itself, only critical security and/or stability
fixes.
> The FreeBSD documentation
> specifically recommended running -stable in a production environment.
That was before the release branches were created. If the handbook
fails to recommend the most up-to-date branch now, it most definitely
should be corrected. Would you like to research this and write a
PR if necessary?
> In those days (not terribly long ago), and -current was the beta test
> environment for stuff that had been alpha tested by those who applied
> patches on their own. Once code proved stable in -current, it was
> moved to -stable. Real effort was put in to keeping -stable suitable
> for production environments.
And it still is. We face this problem before, in the 2.2.x->3.0
branch timeframe, because -CURRENT had deviated so widely from
-STABLE. We'll go through it again (most likely) with the next
-CURRENT branch that is wildly different from -STABLE. It is quite
easy to see this as a problem, but it is also easy to see it as an
opportunity to improve our documentation.
> It may be that -stable is no longer stable because it was allowed (for
> valid reasons) to diverge considerably from -current. -current
> and -stable are almost two separate projects. Or perhaps the idea has
> taken hold that -current is the alpha branch, and -stable is the beta
> branch because of assumptions carried into FreeBSD from other projects
> that various committers have worked on. Or perhaps the rapid pace of
> development has made the old model obsolete. Or maybe the old model
> was never really a good one, but it was at least a goal that strived for.
Some of all of the above. Mostly the project has evolved. The release
branches are the result of more people to work on FreeBSD, some of whom
are quite interested in making sure that the stable branch releases *are*
production ready. Make use of their work, and contribute if you can.
> As things stand now, it appears that -current is the alpha branch,
> -stable is the not-so-stable beta branch, and RELENG_4_7 is the stable
> branch. But it also helps to remember the original (although widely
> forgotten) definition of "beta" testing: it is the final testing phase of a
> design that is believed to be ready for production, and thus should be
> intended to be as stable as a production system, and not as an
> experimental testbed for new features. Perhaps by that definition,
> -stable always WAS "beta", and it is the definition of "beta" that
> has changed.
Thanks for the summary, Bob. I look forward to your report on the state
of the Handbook on this subject. I'm certain if there is a problem you
don't feel up to addressing yourself, one of our wonderful scribes on
the -doc mailing list will step up to help you with the task, and to get
your/their changes committed. I've cc'd them on this just in case you
need the help, and directed replies there.
Thanks in advance for your contribution. ;^)
--
"Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?"
Wes Peters Softweyr LLC
wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/
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