From owner-freebsd-numerics@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 17 18:55:33 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-numerics@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EF8A6975; Tue, 17 Mar 2015 18:55:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-yh0-x22e.google.com (mail-yh0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c01::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A561696F; Tue, 17 Mar 2015 18:55:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yhct68 with SMTP id t68so6762389yhc.2; Tue, 17 Mar 2015 11:55:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=UT/hTJBlvaDIYMj/RBAp2/pvrCPCvShUR+f3i/i6TWw=; b=tnlW3mA0pMFqB3XPGvTd+1Sni5yN5fvAgMbSexsSApFzFXC3LW4BtI2Ajb2YB5hlSQ mws91b3EELDz+rpn34mm9p6EJdiEJGNuj/7mJB5l68lFiW4zKQtYmznAArjyLdyBEme0 dk75gtDC4QCzqpmzoAopiqJ7zbdpRYUeREvQOsY+Q3vENGCTw7xZ0KrmHx4CXVgvg4lq 2MSeNd7AuKZF1OgRF8hdZWdLsQ4K0gWRC+JGp0HP1C2tyesmt/qC4VavtJe7MLg8gtuo 7XMkvW618vucl5xKd2RyswNmFLxf2Flz8A3EfiaQCjyxTVXTSi7w1uXrJ7eVEEjLIfn4 FGEQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.170.180.66 with SMTP id w63mr57790260ykd.39.1426618532866; Tue, 17 Mar 2015 11:55:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.170.60.69 with HTTP; Tue, 17 Mar 2015 11:55:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <550874DE.3060700@FreeBSD.org> References: <7CBD7758-9472-4A2E-8065-EC6E68EE8DAB@FreeBSD.org> <20150317060310.GA21975@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <00a001d060d7$0077f100$0167d300$@acm.org> <55086E2D.9080806@FreeBSD.org> <550874DE.3060700@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2015 11:55:32 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Random number generators From: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk To: Pedro Giffuni Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.18-1 Cc: dennis.hamilton@acm.org, freebsd-numerics@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-numerics@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions of high quality implementation of libm functions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2015 18:55:34 -0000 On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 11:39 AM, Pedro Giffuni wrote: > Hi; > > On 03/17/15 13:18, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: > > > > On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 11:10 AM, Pedro Giffuni wrote: > >> Hi Dennis; >> >> On 03/17/15 12:22, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: >> >>> There is a lot of discussion about qualities of Random Number generators >>> on cryptography lists. MT is not a good choice for that, but it might not >>> need to be important for other applications. >>> >>> There has been some recent work, PCG, that has attracted some attention, >>> . There are good videos explaining what >>> the approach is about as well. PCG also has implementations in C. (It is >>> under the Apache License 2.0 too: >>> for a minimal family and for ones >>> with extended capabilities.) >>> >>> The analysis of what does and doesn't work, and how passing diehard is >>> too easy, is also valuable. >>> >>> If you are serious about crypto grade randomness, libc is probably not >>> the answer. Generally, I don't think reliance on a single generator for >>> general purpose use and for cryptographic quality is going to work well. >>> This is a very context-sensitive situation and addressing specific threat >>> models against cryptographic PRGs is a very different matter from wanting >>> unpredictable and good quality pseudo-randoms for simulations and other >>> purposes. >>> >> >> The pcg-random link seems to be down now but for crypto, we have >> arc4random(3) which is pretty good and about to be improved further. >> >> Pedro. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> > > Three of the above links are accessible from here at Izmir , in Turkey . > > > It just came up here. It looks like PCG compares favorably with ChaCha20, > but > this is PCG's page and the comparison is not very clear ("Secure" vs > "Challenging"?) > > It may be worth considering though. > > Pedro. > There is the following page : http://csrc.nist.gov/groups/ST/toolkit/rng/index.html random number generation ( Software is in Public Domain ) I do not know whether it may be useful or not for this thread . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk