From owner-freebsd-i18n Fri Sep 6 8:53:15 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57A7D37B400; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 08:53:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhub.fokus.gmd.de (mailhub.fokus.gmd.de [193.174.154.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A41C743E6E; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 08:53:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brandt@fokus.gmd.de) Received: from beagle (beagle [193.175.132.100]) by mailhub.fokus.gmd.de (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g86Fqth12465; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 17:52:56 +0200 (MEST) Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 17:52:55 +0200 (CEST) From: Harti Brandt To: Mikhail Teterin Cc: Harti Brandt , "Andrey A. Chernov" , Mikhail Teterin , , Maxim Sobolev , Subject: Re: recap (Re: koi8-r is obsoleted by koi8-u) In-Reply-To: <200209061112.23386.mi+mx@aldan.algebra.com> Message-ID: <20020906173418.Y816-100000@beagle.fokus.gmd.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-i18n@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, Mikhail Teterin wrote: MT>On Friday 06 September 2002 03:13 am, Harti Brandt wrote: MT>= Given that fonts/cyrillic is only about 1MByte and that you can control MT>= which of the fonts get loaded with the fontpath and compared to other MT>= bloat I see no waste here. MT> MT>Actually, 1Mb of _dead weight_ is plenty in my book. Having all three MT>fontsets will triple that... 1085 /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/cyrillic 173724 /usr/X11R6 I can't really see that point. MT>= RFC-1489 is not marked as obsolete, so people will countinue to use it MT>= and, honestly, I don't see a reason to remove support even if it would MT>= be obsoleted. MT> MT>FreeBSD, generally, removes parts considered obsolete -- be that drivers MT>for obsolete hardware (pre-IDE disks) or software packages (uucp). In MT>the later case, the removed software is turned into a port... Oh well, that may be true, but even FreeBSD doesn't remove features that a lot of people use. I'm NOT talking about using those characters in question, but about using the font name koi8-r. The are millions of web pages that specify charset="koi8-r". And, well, we don't want to move 'obsolete' features from /usr/ports to /usr/portsports :-) MT>Marking the RFC-1489 is what I'm beginning to campaing for :-) Better start getting rid of EBCDIC :-) (It's still in dd). MT>The "religious" overtones come from the frustration over the ignorance, MT>with which some people equate "Cyrillic" and "Russian" (BTW, "Soviet" MT>and "Russian" is a related problem). The alphabet was created in the MT>9th century BC, apparently, in Monrovia -- about three centuries before MT>Moscow was founded (and pretty far from its future location too)... I always recognized koi8-r as "cyrillic font for russian" and koi8-u as "cyrrillic font for ukrainian". At least RFC-2319 says that koi8-u is ukrainian. MT>I think, koi8-c should be the default with aliases pointing to koi8-u MT>and koi8-r. Whoever is currently installing the new koi8-r fonts through MT>Andrey's port(s) will still be able to do that if they require it. But MT>the casual users will not have to install all three. So we all agree on that there should be (standard conform) koi8-[ruc] fonts available. The question is whether to install all of them per default or to install only koi8-c and make koi8-[ru] aliases. For me it doesn't matter. I really would like to see koi8-c (I love the old russian orthography). Make a STRICT_RFC knob to the make file to install all three fonts. harti -- harti brandt, http://www.fokus.gmd.de/research/cc/cats/employees/hartmut.brandt/private brandt@fokus.gmd.de, brandt@fokus.fhg.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-i18n" in the body of the message