From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Mar 19 17:36:16 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74A8957C0D4 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2021 17:36:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from melson.r@att.net) Received: from sonic306-23.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (sonic306-23.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.68.86]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F29zg3VsRz3LTN for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2021 17:36:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from melson.r@att.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1616175373; bh=PYy69qpuqa1sAcgjg8X2iw1rQsHoba6MuYN6qAkIRoA=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=as+RCWBYSilSQ5r3Elr+Q1JtbZihDebZYz/Xx2WY3LfzoP0zH3SvceXkGOqigYCOoYgFCBOA+gkzojMu3Oldf29twlu1x+e85oh5SOmit1oGcfWqoJXZ2RiBhj6IuE9xUqZpditmTPQja5QBtI9dCwwgN1WHYbDxfgNsrIYPwWM= X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1616175373; bh=kWFL9RyOF90442GuqSz9oaAnvASN3393qYXl2aqKTJD=; h=X-Sonic-MF:Subject:To:From:Date:From:Subject; b=LE8Rh6OSBYuZ+rHNv0USpptAIE57Z/06w/M/HHTgpNHzFkNwpPv25DzaP2xz9X3ryfQbJDiNX5AMJXGUsPgnRfCLMHZ2uVKlhDf+nNDWiZIRELrO12R0nn6VCZ5xtL0fWpt4oLZER0u9eyGSfZ58BH+K6D4at84O/1t9oRdTBeUl/Uj7mwLVtTFTVc+YTsirNkKaAnVsWikbQzvQwRhk+7sB2IEQvIQ0VqVwiNdZrx4o1JeSJo2xXh64DN8RIwSfSC0ySq6Sm4KtlwXGxdhIKm3LWuEfKlmQ3mX1d8LQ0eW/r51whb3uAxDM9R4+uxKq045Ii10e2fXrsLWfern+Cw== X-YMail-OSG: 5D64E4gVM1lbKoYRdZ_lDsSCi01sFuOpmGWjuQrXNqxGKrVtgqUJT.1.HkKYfdY Ng5opuKtgnUELuCd8lh9pNG.oZc6Ooy_PckjowpqmDfbjciOL6iyVkMZ4XHkhJhqj74L692Vo08x tuxGdY4jZlD1S7kXNQ2_b6r_u1EBjdRtAsyAFeK92qBpMqjn8cpE_ueZoP2upJWJiP.cEjVK372S qd0QBMSrd_jKK.ilTISdROi_OJClqeAW06bGDL_1aZ6iKdL5xr.GoxEsmsCWWQtXfgYrwgzjNHWV HaCwdA3iqBpRH9WWWLkDlIU.O5jiEhTIw9Xs0or0SuiG1jlIg89VstpKkzK.uOfkcu6.mlyTj5.N jzafaiPNnfchR1jyzJy3SCpvcSG_aZ17sCztoows9mLVPWY5cyhfQJIEwMrJSBLfq_Hp2JEw49mG 9GPJFwQrqq_Hj9y6Ntj01HE8.O4nwNOKpm.gGgARtu7Lq1i28Kh3fRxG3sAI7y_I.NaAQ2f.VEPr 6a4sFuBDdGKBTxXXUUOfRCzHede7Xkxd7cTbEgCErv12b2AQA9wxM5Qe9J3SZCG6aZlAMjKFvZmX ibklIQHbJz4M5KnoIOGa89V57iIPjR7iRNN7h2GV8jWm94y.9NtDUOSlEZM5q11ABV9UjaeMlH68 8PrZ7xUSCiHKn6ZJh8P.nunaw6q90XNGZeVjgWCGUVZKWGQYTN4gGnaV1JgsZ4NaTPZzBMU9FQqj lzhhtXI6wsisoWjSPu5dUsUILu5kVv9vujy.Ry7LLgQL1u1duhXWDke4q.X6qMBdyk1G8nRuBAvc zZMv.6ftjVCBQA0R5.dzHsVXpiahGob7Cq3XaMlLKCcMstyjHhn6h_CW1Y290jPBzdzZyhJOmtLg LwCj4KFiYImndifFEcZPRcGiuf3TJiuclIaz0nkQBu3NXAQygzDTiGH0Q9o128WQaVNNYS0OMG1T FRQDKn7oST6DcF6lLvbBlAaPerpuAVPCFIZD_XdiKJauftr2DwNsgr9r1Ht4W1PIkecDsIJqib3N zmvS7WSRL5eDrre.sf3ShIjvBmpBg2trTtonDu0RdNtWbou7jhrC7mqjQ7DQXa14jqJf.p2TxA9F XwJgPpVRsv_eNmmloDWh4OHwk3A1QpvB_6Oo07yAHzD4sY1vTrgRMXD7rmqmj7y6pwTGJh7ps0zO KpazIOihkaHIMLU3vY.9qOXv4bnygrZFS.pKIMHdCUWjfshyqQdR2Sw6vp.ah3CCQodQe_v6O6Mo _c1.Zu7PdNpU_qJx2Zq7RWGa0_iBSWoB0Fmqt7q9WRKurpjmSfNvmdHEUKOjzK7ZMu.ZImpMML38 wGwAM_R6sKVnsI8K3wOnuC8z737NFRFsJFenkqPXrBdZ.KqL39GTqpl2lWIH..xpFL8UNKqWl0LH M6NWeVp1.hjd_fdL20hq1srJwFtWEIVA5A7dhzNaze63EnNXui9HA.I3Oq3.2FRDUNfzsvr88JT9 cKtOoWLqNgiCzUK0TObGY3gdHPmXreJBhq0C_UEfT_b.E4DP_oPCIPZKtevwQAFWVFr1.HkV43AG De6vHbVFNnCp99iY.XERMDVnO.RdQtKQ7AFHdaNKlPrQzze_KFdMz4VrkoZIoTtWOsa2qGaNOBqe pNNAGCybXezWv.viCuVuHHGjEfJ4YimG6rVtR6OMutJwfh11gdKqDAg2eCihqnAeUrjHgfcrdtdB CehuxVN2XXrenoa7CrZTF7ztOFyiFg_gUXUlEMi4gMpIP_0o1ApL9RM5WCnkUTU0g9oyTtqORjNp 8fTAtmMDgBSDBZVKgEMhJA3cwZNC0Gr5ahArr.vl1K6ERY5E0uLDOj17oeCoBr6DSNSDeNATs7GC 15x9G5lUmaWQqWqRH_hCDbNb69QZvAlNX62JL8vaJ5rXtvqAo8yh3BT4kvPz5w1rlT6ej04hoZxA MTAIX6Cde2hTNxqdtVrFbp_5xvblVyrLXhmrVvWLmeVgiibhFjilAgfmn2FH2xs4P26QHEXV3Y.X HHAAfYNbm3MZ80yzhdE8s3sIVF4WQ0kmXKVVnbUz6LAv6Qzgip__Gy4aI600z1iCEgBlKnHuq1J1 cPVt4dXQaOwvDmsQjxaz0zqOKihLwiwcEkhUiRNidE0zGcgIwyxuaWoIVQ1kIfHcuD8hNqoSJyUI NdgvuE4wwxfQunsqr3H8Xf96BfSBKHGJTQ5wVQJMAA0dnzLMAUf4qxLGB4rs4uX81hDX2hWPXbzi gv2F9Hwv337BoZIvUcPMmcQFenk_C.g3DOrhVM_eiaGGgqlXH3AsoiEAaBeElTZVpI9SaWwilYip xhpjO7reYxkWzqXSWkWV5acax7KcXCEcHXANYTussSR0MD9QVm8P2IVngJWqKhjSEiJRnrUR3Q95 Qi_LfgkTYgnS971dE32vUNM1knPsq3FSMCfNGkR0eQHMNbjwdyIo0QP4.dtViRkzzITMscJcRega BgIY83K4- X-Sonic-MF: Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic306.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Fri, 19 Mar 2021 17:36:13 +0000 Received: by smtp417.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID f8e4288926c678fa1121e55208143b58; Fri, 19 Mar 2021 17:36:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: OS to replace FreeBSD To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20210319101040.00005c35@seibercom.net> <6054BE1B.50706@gmail.com> <20210319130249.000042a1@seibercom.net> From: Bob Melson Organization: Department of Paleocomputing, Whatsamatta U. Message-ID: <5a8cf0be-646a-a433-2428-9700a47c1bf0@att.net> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2021 11:36:10 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.8.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20210319130249.000042a1@seibercom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.17936 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Apache-HttpAsyncClient/4.1.4 (Java/11.0.9.1) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4F29zg3VsRz3LTN X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=att.net header.s=s1024 header.b=as+RCWBY; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of melson.r@att.net has no SPF policy when checking 98.137.68.86) smtp.mailfrom=melson.r@att.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.30 / 15.00]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[att.net]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[att.net:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[att.net]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[att.net:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[98.137.68.86:from]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[att.net:s=s1024]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[att.net]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[98.137.68.86:from:127.0.2.255]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[98.137.68.86:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[98.137.68.86:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2021 17:36:16 -0000 On 3/19/21 11:02 AM, Jerry wrote: > On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 11:07:07 -0400, Ernie Luzar stated: >> Matthias Gamsjager wrote: >>> On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 at 15:16, Jerry wrote: >>> >>>> With the soon-to-be release of version 13 of FreeBSD and the EOL of >>>> FreeBSD 11.x, I will need to invest in a new OS. Due to FreeBSD’s >>>> unfortunate inability to squash bug >>>> https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=237666, l am left >>>> with no choice but to seek out a new OS. I need a bare-bones system >>>> that can run a mail server, Postfix with Dovecot, and a few other >>>> utilities. >>>> >> This sounds like only 2 things. 1. Something in your hardware tower >> is >> falling. 2. The way you updated from one release to another something >> went wrong. >> >> I would start with a clean build of release 12.2 using a disk drive on >> a usb stick. See if problem is still there. If so you have hardware >> problem and no amount of PR is going to fix that. > > There was nothing failing; it was a brand new PC. I have done the clean > install with both 12.0 and 12.2, with the same results. If you actually > read through the bug report, you would see that I am not the only one > with this problem. > > Apparently, someone reported that you could rebuild the kernel and > remove USB3 or something like that, but I have neither the time nor > inclination to do that, assuming I could do it. > > Versions 10 & 11 work fine. This is something that FreeBSD did that > screwed up the works. Dell is aware of the problem but will do nothing > to attempt to create a work around for it. They claim it is working as > specified and every other OS, with the exception of FreeBSD works > correctly on that system. > > I am not going to spend more money to get a system that is happy with > FreeBSD. I buy what I want and then get an OS that is capable of > operating on it, not the other way around. In any case, I am thinking > of either Fedora, Debian or Arch Linux. I was just looking for > recommendations from anyone who has used those systems. > What I'd suggest is that you take a deep breath then ask yourself why you selected FreeBSD in the first place. If the considerations that were important then are still important then, maybe, switching OSes is not the right decision. Sure, there are a lot of alternatives out there, but if the factors that held at the time of your initial choice are still valid ... I'd also suggest that, if BSD in general is what you're most comfortable with, you consider either NetBSD or OpenBSD as a possible replacement. Both share the same roots as FreeBSD but have followed somewhat different paths to reach their current releases. Each has its positive points, each has negatives; how those negatives might affect you is up to you to determine. Me, I'm presently running generic 12.2 on a Lenovo Ryzen box with no problems and have run FreeBSD on various hardware since v2.1. I *was* - once upon a time - a professional user, now I'm just a happily retired geek. Bob Melson El Paso, TX -- Robert G. Melson | Rio Grande Microsolutions | El Paso, TX -- Minds are like parachutes. They only function when they are open. Sir James Dewar