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([2607:fb90:8232:33:687e:8852:7f6e:cdc]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c4sm114077909pfm.151.2019.01.03.09.41.54 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 03 Jan 2019 09:41:54 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: Speculative: Rust for base system components From: Enji Cooper X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16C104) In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 09:41:53 -0800 Cc: Hackers freeBSD Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <7BCC2D20-7CC5-42B1-BBD2-F3D077D59081@gmail.com> References: <201901021829.x02IT4Kc064169@slippy.cwsent.com> <361CCB81-AEB6-4EAC-9604-CD8F4C63948C@gmail.com> To: Igor Mozolevsky X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 709C986D61 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=gvMi3gF/; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of yaneurabeya@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::42d as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=yaneurabeya@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.09 / 15.00]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.995,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[d.2.4.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-2.59)[ip: (-9.09), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.14), asn: 15169(-1.64), country: US(-0.08)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2019 17:41:58 -0000 Igor, > On Jan 3, 2019, at 08:32, Igor Mozolevsky wrote: ... > That's precisely how ideas that most people disagree with get *pushed* > through by evangelists with confirmation bias! Like someone said > earlier in the discussion: does Rust add anything? The answer is a > resounding NO, save for bloat. And this is why one reason people say =E2=80=9CFreeBSD is dying=E2=80=9D. If we stuck with status quo, we wouldn=E2=80=99t have llvm, would use just P= owerPC/Intel architectures, libxo wouldn=E2=80=99t be a thing, we wouldn=E2=80= =99t have tests, etc. Calculated risks have value. But in order to prove their acceptance and use,= you need to provide prototypes to show their usefulness, provide measuremen= ts, and such. My point is to provide an existing service that I=E2=80=99ve seen implemente= d more than once by FreeBSD-integrators in an ugly way, using non-modern C/C= ++, or python 2.x: the former which is more difficult to maintain than moder= n C/C++, and frankly was a mess; the latter which was maintainable, but slow= (because JIT python) and didn=E2=80=99t use base system components, i.e., p= ython 2.x. Tl;Dr: if you don=E2=80=99t have anything constructive to say, please rethin= k your replies and provide constructive criticism. Constructive criticism is= welcome. Armchair nitpicking is not. Thanks, -Enji=