From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 2 16:37:10 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [69.147.83.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B3C8106564A; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 16:37:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from opti.dougb.net (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEBFF14E2EC; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 16:37:09 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <501AACB5.5020004@FreeBSD.org> Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 09:37:09 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120728 Thunderbird/14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Scott Long References: <612DA8A3-121E-4E72-9E5B-F3CBA9DEB7F7@bsdimp.com> <501A0258.4010101@FreeBSD.org> <45815622-3CE2-42E3-B118-702AA70C7E4C@samsco.org> In-Reply-To: <45815622-3CE2-42E3-B118-702AA70C7E4C@samsco.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Arnaud Lacombe , Warner Losh Subject: Re: On cooperative work [Was: Re: newbus' ivar's limitation..] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 16:37:10 -0000 On 08/02/2012 09:20, Scott Long wrote: > > On Aug 2, 2012, at 12:23 AM, Kevin Oberman > wrote: > >> Doug makes some good points. > > No, he doesn't. Yes I do! (So there) > He and Arnould being argumentative and accusatory > where none of that is warranted. > > I used to run the devsummits, and we did tele-conference lines for > remote people to participate. I singled out BSDCAN specifically since that's "where the action is" for the last several years. I do recall your efforts in this regard, but it so happened that I was able to attend most of them in person back then. No slight towards what you did was intended. > After I stepped down, others took it > up and did the same thing. Usually, the lines were unused. I > suspect that organizers simply stopped thinking about them after a > while because of poor interest. There is no conspiracy of exclusion > here, just simple human apathy. Here I have to disagree with you. Once again, speaking specifically about BSDCAN dev summits, I repeatedly asked the organizers to provide some sort of audio stream (phone, Internet, anything) and was repeatedly told it wasn't possible. This was not a case of lack of interest. This was a case of "We understand that it is something people want, but it isn't going to happen." > The invite system for the devsummit was, and still is, purely about > providing some order to the process. It ensures that people > attending are willing to demonstrate a minimum amount of interest, > more than just wondering by a room one day and dropping in for free > food and wifi. I specifically made allowances for this issue in my post. Doug -- I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something. And I will not let what I cannot do interfere with what I can do. -- Edward Everett Hale, (1822 - 1909)