Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2011 19:42:45 +0700 From: Vadim Goncharov <vadim_nuclight@mail.ru> To: Nathan Whitehorn <nwhitehorn@freebsd.org> Cc: doceng@freebsd.org, svn-src-all@freebsd.org, Team <re@freebsd.org>, FreeBSD Subject: Re: svn commit: r223897 - in head: release usr.sbin/bsdinstall/scripts Message-ID: <201107171242.p6HCgknb028607@kernblitz.nuclight.avtf.net> In-Reply-To: =?UTF-8?Q?=3C4E2054AF=2E2040701=5F=5F44463=2E8588619002=241?= =?UTF-8?Q?310741734=24gmane=24org=40freebsd=2Eorg=3E?= References: <201107092301.p69N1sUp019626__19145.5060652972$1310252550$gmane$org@svn.freebsd.org> <201107121004.p6CA4apj070450@kernblitz.nuclight.avtf.net> <4E1C4955.7010206@freebsd.org> <201107151416.p6FEGQgQ018154@kernblitz.nuclight.avtf.net> <4E2054AF.2040701__44463.8588619002$1310741734$gmane$org@freebsd.org>
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Hi Nathan Whitehorn! On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 09:54:39 -0500; Nathan Whitehorn wrote about 'Re: svn commit: r223897 - in head: release usr.sbin/bsdinstall/scripts': >>>> Umm, _configured network_ even for original English docs? In 8.2R those doc >>>> packages for every lang were installed by sysinstall from CD (DVD1 actually), >>>> as it should really be for new user - e.g. if network could be configured only >>>> after reading Handbook, installing mpd5 from CD/DVD packages, and so on. >>>> >>>> Or am I missing something, and it will still be available on the disk? >>>> >>> The packages are really big (40 MB per), and there's only a small amount >>> of space available on the disc. >> But they were so a lot while: >> >> 7.4-RELEASE$ du -chd 0 /usr/share/doc/??_* >> 832K /usr/share/doc/bn_BD.ISO10646-1 >> 212K /usr/share/doc/da_DK.ISO8859-1 > [...] >> >> And still a packed onto installation disks. Why was there space earlier? >> And for it is wasted nowadays? > The installation CDs are live CDs now, which means that they provide a > functional fixit environment (ls, for instance) That's a good news. > as well as letting > people try out the operating system and expanding the range of system > functionality available to the installer. This takes space. Some of that > space is at the expense of other things, but I personally believe that > trade-off is very much worth while. This shouldn't trade off really. Is that stuff using geom_uzip(4) to save space? This is just as simple as doing mkuzip -v mfs_root.md and tweaking loader.conf for vfs.root.mountfrom, mfsroot_name and module loading. >>> We *could* fit the English ones, but it >>> badly complicates the release scripts to begin doing package generation, >>> and Marc and I decided to do it this way. >> How this can complicate release scripts, when packing release image and >> generating packages are two logically separated steps? >> >> Anyway, the impact on user's perception of FreeBSD will be too bad to measure >> it the amount of scirpts work. The system just can't live without beginner's >> documentation, and I've already given one very practical example when this is >> absolutely needed. >> > This was the decision of the documentation team, and as far as > documentation is concerned, I will do whatever they ask with regard to Presumably this decision is wrong, especially with regard to a way to compress some more space on disk using geom_uzip(4). This kernel module was used e.g. to build a Frenzy LiveCD, containing X Window and many packages on 250 Mb mini-CD. > the release scripts and the installer. Presumably, the release will also > include a second CD (or DVD) full of packages, which will contain the > full handbook. That's also a variant, but the commit says about requirement to have network, not CD2, or am I missing something? > The complication for the release building scripts is that > they generate finished ISOs, so anything that goes on the image must be > available to the script. The scripts no longer build packages of any > kind, and so building even one package substantially adds to their > complication. That's sounds strange - installation disks always included some packages. How it is done, then? > I also personally think it's not required or even important to provide a > way to install the handbook from disc1. The main documentation format > for it is HTML, for which we package no readers on disc1. Additionally, There was also a .txt version earlier days. > I'm guessing that basically all of our users read it on www.freebsd.org > these days instead of from /usr/local/share, which potentially makes it > superfluous to package it at all. Further, without the handbook, how > would a new user know to look for it at that path? The typical path is that user has heard about Handbook and even looked into a chapter or two on the site. Nobody reads entire Handbook before install, however (this is just impractical and boring), so he proceeds and then founds that there is no network in FreeBSD out-of-box for his particular ISP and he needs to read Handbook (and use mpd5 package) - but now there will be no Handbook, alas. -- WBR, Vadim Goncharov. ICQ#166852181 mailto:vadim_nuclight@mail.ru [Moderator of RU.ANTI-ECOLOGY][FreeBSD][http://antigreen.org][LJ:/nuclight]
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