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Date:      Fri, 01 Jan 1999 21:18:08 -0800
From:      Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
To:        undisclosed-recipients:;
Subject:   Re: DEVFS, the time has come... 
Message-ID:  <199901020518.VAA00463@dingo.cdrom.com>
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 01 Jan 1999 22:11:36 MST." <199901020511.WAA15502@mt.sri.com> 

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> > > To counter Joerg's 'not bothered by non-persistent DEVFS', I'd have to
> > > say that my experience with Solaris has been less than enthusiastic.
> > > Note, it only dealt with one device (the tape drive), but it was a pain
> > > in the butt.
> > > 
> > > I setup the machine so that 'normal users' could do their own backups to
> > > the tape drive, but the default permissions would not allow this to
> > > work, so I had to 'chmod' the device special node.  The combination of
> > > the Solaris init implementation (where do I stick the chmod call in the
> > > mess of init files?), the fact that the tape drive was 'mobile' (it
> > > moved to a PC for backups on occasion), and the fact that I couldn't
> > > make the mods persistent w/out a lot of work.
> > > 
> > > Yes, it could be done, but it was a huge pain in the backside to get it
> > > to work 100%, and it shouldn't be that much work IMO.
> > 
> > This sounds more like you were bitten by the lack of easily-adapted 
> > support infrastructure than that the basic concept is flawed, 
> > especially as the case you offer as support is one that would be a 
> > non-issue with our infrastructure.
> 
> What infrastructure?  Nothing exists at this point in FreeBSD to do this
> 'easily'.  There is lots of hand-waving, but nobody has even agreed on
> *what* form a persistence mechanism would take, other than those who
> argue 'we really don't need it'. :(

You were specifically complaining about not being able to fix something 
that a boot-time script would have been more than adequate for.

> We've got boot rc.* scripts (which I hope Warner has pointed out is
> insufficient),

Actually, in most cases they'd be fine, if decidedly inelegant.

> and the infamous 'daemon', which IMO would be difficult
> to customize easily, 

A non-comment on a non-design.

> I'd like to see something of substance *implemented* before we agree to
> go with DEVFS.

How can you implement something for something else that doesn't exist?

> There are still also outstanding issues of *how* a device node shows up
> in the first place.  We still have the chicken/egg problems of whether
> or not to create device nodes for *every* conceivable disk device for a
> particular disk (wd0, wd0a, wd0s1a, wd0s2a, etc...), which SLICE was
> supposed to help with.

Lack of SLICE-equivalent functionality would instantly disqualify any 
DEVFS candidate; I think that much has to be obvious.

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  mike@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msmith@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\  msmith@cdrom.com


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