From owner-freebsd-wireless@freebsd.org Mon Apr 27 14:18:38 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-wireless@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C9FA2BA0DE for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 14:18:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ajcsweb@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qv1-xf29.google.com (mail-qv1-xf29.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::f29]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 499n254tpRz45q8 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 14:18:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ajcsweb@gmail.com) Received: by mail-qv1-xf29.google.com with SMTP id ep1so8571530qvb.0 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 07:18:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:cc; bh=ancBaBOs8TW+tZ5u7GeDS8ODSQX+sFT/hombGTZM1gY=; b=F4j6EvCjKhyOYCeb/qk+vnHiYfeu4fzkpRcBj3ZcEIe2js6rV+JzAvAV2zw4gJtIjD Hg6Kfl8oJt2fEe31f1uNbMFrysB5pAyYamc6OSIQBWjvlz5dUd4kwFcZWjpubl+m310W CKme/bMlphPc6+eu7JDrG25ycHd2w9/Aoo0gdm9pN96A7YeaoJ+1G5lsvqNrd6UsuJse Od2bJOXZHOkUJy7R9JhZlMcK5Zi2/1txdTr9iofz2QbJYZu5AIA2P/zul4lGJ5YjaN8D S6WluPBsaPC+b0+vJt5IuAiAJT35ZNVIPl38dZHTRiPtsFD08aFqiGQ+oek9JilD/fyO tF4A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:cc; bh=ancBaBOs8TW+tZ5u7GeDS8ODSQX+sFT/hombGTZM1gY=; b=otUDjsqsj+19tE/EyUYTtBW8rxpAlam5APO8FW/I/H6QjLf8mPvNAwSGM15jna5WvP DONxJBT5cI60r7q6st39JUxnXBm4aOJtzdYgb1LFqIfdENe5SU11YD4arLb6Gt7lNR1m P6QxKI7aTISHamlf4DLP+WjdbqD0sGRMOVjDUaWdOmeIVZlVWcluP8axriTi5hJ6STeK 4tJjhOeDLe/W6B68NACt38qQoioQlXFXXJ5/FKpPKHYetV7rAJJuZxIp+Y3u8dLqg4QK ANuVvAkpimzWNv7bFLbC76cWAIWlrWF8b045uYnMkxOYRqKMT6y90Bbxq9PbJT5nXN2B pv1w== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuY4mls6lMDk5swg72m7j0BkVY/5NMBEOVGxEhrB4MYtLQlUl4FO 1Y6dBFUOAvnTK4dR3VlxFhdf+7MhiI5NiPKk4kQQyw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypL160ZGTSoDF5tWjjJRDtni4+wDHPvRBZpQuUi8y/YBX9HqspFlq+gmQYrXy4eUy63bP3EF0H9x7s5xg8Btyho= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:b501:: with SMTP id d1mr23065359qve.63.1587997116382; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 07:18:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <67FD6C98-7C30-463B-A052-4CC7F9FFD5CD@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <67FD6C98-7C30-463B-A052-4CC7F9FFD5CD@FreeBSD.org> From: waddlesplash Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 10:18:25 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: pondering WiFi forwards Cc: freebsd-wireless@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 499n254tpRz45q8 X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=F4j6EvCj; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ajcsweb@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::f29 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ajcsweb@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.70 / 15.00]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MISSING_TO(2.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[waddlesplash@gmail.com,ajcsweb@gmail.com]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (-5.90), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-0.33), asn: 15169(-0.43), country: US(-0.05)]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[waddlesplash@gmail.com,ajcsweb@gmail.com]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-wireless@freebsd.org]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[9.2.f.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-wireless@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions of 802.11 stack, tools device driver development." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 14:18:38 -0000 Hi, On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 9:58 AM Bjoern A. Zeeb wrote: > FreeBSD has downstream consumers, Haiku, RTEMS (to my knowledge), NetBSD > is synching from us as well [4] and I hope we can extend this > =E2=80=9Csynching=E2=80=9D more into collaborations and stay on the same = page > all-together also with the other BSDs in the future. > Speaking here as the current maintainer (though not the first, the work up to about FreeBSD 9 was someone else, I was responsible for the 9 -> 11 upgrade as well as a lot of internal overhauls since then) of the Haiku WiFi stack, which is indeed almost entirely a port of the FreeBSD one via a KPI compatibility layer: Part of the reason that Haiku decided to use FreeBSD ethernet and WiFi drivers and invest the time in a FreeBSD KPI layer, as opposed to Linux's, was partially due to licensing (Haiku is MIT, though we do use a lot of GPL utilities in userland), but almost equally because of our attitudes towards code quality and style. Linux driver code quality was then (i.e. about 13 or so years ago when the decision was being made, before my time), and is now, kind of atrocious, partially because so much of it is vendors just dumping code into the kernel and it usually "works", though often unreliably or with poor performance... I know you are being rather vague here about what kind of "alignment" you are talking about. If you mean incremental changes to the net80211 stack to get it to look more like mac80211 or something, I don't really have much of an opinion there (Haiku uses net80211 wholesale, with of course an ieee80211_haiku.cpp to interface with our own systems, so any changes will get pulled in without much effort.) But if you mean moving WiFi onto linuxkpi ... well ... we'd be sorry to see the old stack go, to say the least... As for collaboration: The only driver bugfixes we have (almost entirely made by me) were already upstreamed into FreeBSD one way or another, and I continue to remain diligent about that. (IIRC at the point we upgraded to FreeBSD 11 drivers, there were some broken iwn chipsets with trivial fixes that apparently nobody had noticed on FreeBSD, so our install base may have more variance in WiFi cards than FreeBSD, by some metric!) We don't have the manpower to really contribute much to WiFi drivers themselves. Financial support would be another matter; if we had a way to specifically earmark funding for WiFi, and only WiFi (or at least, WiFi plus less-maintained ethernet drivers), I could petition our Inc. to donate, and the community at large, too. It wouldn't be a lot, but if you are only part-time anyway, perhaps a modest amount could go a long way, anyway. -waddlesplash