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Date:      Wed, 07 Jun 2000 00:42:32 -0700
From:      Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group <Cy.Schubert@uumail.gov.bc.ca>
To:        Matthew Dillon <dillon@apollo.backplane.com>
Cc:        Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group <Cy.Schubert@uumail.gov.bc.ca>, "mouss" <usebsd@free.fr>, "Peter van Dijk" <petervd@vuurwerk.nl>, freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: FreeBSDDEATH.c.txt (mmap dirty page no check bug) 
Message-ID:  <200006070742.e577gfm04277@cwsys.cwsent.com>
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 06 Jun 2000 23:55:03 PDT." <200006070655.XAA97086@apollo.backplane.com> 

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In message <200006070655.XAA97086@apollo.backplane.com>, Matthew Dillon 
writes:
> :> also, the BSD/OS mfs proposal is not that god. This limits the size of /tm
> p,
> :> and uses mfs for things that do not need to be in mfs.
> :> the first thing I used to do on BSD/OS was to remove the mfs mount and to
> :> softlink /var/tmp to /tmp.
> :
> :I disagree with this.  /tmp is cleared at boot while /var/tmp is not.  
> :The reason for this is to have files remain across boot.
> :mfs is generally (arguably on some O/S's) faster than writing data to 
> :disk.  (If writing to disk is faster than using mfs, assuming there's 
> 
>     MFS is a terrible idea for /tmp.  Each page in an MFS filesystem eats
>     *TWO* pages of physical memory (until swapped).  This means that the
>     active dataset (what processes have accessed recently) eats twice
>     as much physical memory as it needs to.  MFS also needlessly loads
>     down the VM system when it does start to stress memory.   Simple
>     things like someone tar xvf'ing a large distribution in /tmp can bring
>     the machine to its knees with an MFS partition where the same operation
>     on a normal filesystem would barely glitch most of the resource meters.
> 
>     MFS would be my *LAST* choice for a tmp.

Is this because one page is in the cache and the other is in MFS?  I 
can see that would be a problem.

> 
>     Like it or not, /tmp and /var/tmp are here to stay.  /usr/tmp doesn't
>     exist on most systems (thank god!), so it would be stupid of us to add
>     it in. 

I didn't say that I wanted /usr/tmp!  /usr/tmp is an ancient idea that 
was replaced by /var/tmp in the last ice age.  Why would we want 
/usr/tmp?  If we're going to do that let's have a /usr/spool and 
/usr/adm.

/tmp and /var/tmp doesn't hold much water either.  Most applications 
support the use of TMP and TMPDIR environment variables.  Applications 
that don't support a TMP environment variable should be changed.  /tmp 
and /var/tmp is a concept that is past its prime and should be retired 
lieu of a more secure paradigm.  Anything less than this must be 
considered unacceptable in a secure operating system.

So far no one has convinced me that /tmp and/or /var/tmp cannot be 
phased out.  I have not seen any good arguments to keep them over the 
long term.  Don't forget, applications can be changed to use the new 
paradigm.


Regards,                       Phone:  (250)387-8437
Cy Schubert                      Fax:  (250)387-5766
Team Leader, Sun/DEC Team   Internet:  Cy.Schubert@osg.gov.bc.ca
Open Systems Group, ITSD, ISTA
Province of BC





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