From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 15 21:03:21 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DA8216A41C for ; Fri, 15 Jul 2005 21:03:21 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from oberman@es.net) Received: from postal2.es.net (postal2.es.net [198.128.3.206]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BEE943D46 for ; Fri, 15 Jul 2005 21:03:21 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from oberman@es.net) Received: from ptavv.es.net ([198.128.4.29]) by postal2.es.net (Postal Node 2) with ESMTP (SSL) id IBA74465; Fri, 15 Jul 2005 14:03:20 -0700 Received: from ptavv (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ptavv.es.net (Tachyon Server) with ESMTP id 01E215D07; Fri, 15 Jul 2005 14:03:20 -0700 (PDT) To: Matthias Buelow In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 15 Jul 2005 22:24:07 +0200." <20050715202407.GD1374@drjekyll.mkbuelow.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 14:03:19 -0700 From: "Kevin Oberman" Message-Id: <20050715210320.01E215D07@ptavv.es.net> Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: dangerous situation with shutdown process X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 21:03:21 -0000 > Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 22:24:07 +0200 > From: Matthias Buelow > Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org > > Wilko Bulte wrote: > > > Not If The Bloody PeeCee Style Crap ATA Drives Keep Lying To You.. > >Followups to /dev/null > > Yes, makes no sense talking to a wall. You are right, but I don't think you get who the wall is... When you try to get an ATA drive to flush its buffers and tell you when they are flushed, there is a hight probability that the drive (if it support the function at all) will tell you that it has flushed the cache immediately. There is simply no way to tell if your data or metadata is actually on the magnetic medium and no technique (journaling, barriers, soft updates) can assure that you will not have a corrupt disk, especially if the write cache is near full. Think about how long it takes to flush a 16 MB buffer to the hard drive and remember that the dump of the cache to the drive is in an order over which you have no control. The ONLY way to be really safe is to turn off the write cache and that extracts a huge performance penalty. What you prefer is a matter of personal choice but the file system simply can't make things better. I believe that the Windows solution to this problem is to put a really, really long delay between when the system is finished syncing and when the power is turned off. This might be the best solution for FreeBSD, as well, but it will irritate people. -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer Energy Sciences Network (ESnet) Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab) E-mail: oberman@es.net Phone: +1 510 486-8634