Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 12:05:23 -0400 From: Marko Zec <zec@icir.org> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: Chris <chrcoluk@gmail.com>, "Bjoern A. Zeeb" <bzeeb-lists@lists.zabbadoz.net>, Andre Oppermann <andre@freebsd.org>, Ed Schouten <ed@fxq.nl>, Julian Elischer <julian@elischer.org> Subject: Re: Multiple IP Jail's patch for FreeBSD 6.2 Message-ID: <200705161205.23567.zec@icir.org> In-Reply-To: <3aaaa3a0705160632r4ec0164t8bb8b714fec15426@mail.gmail.com> References: <45F1C355.8030504@digitaldaemon.com> <200705160604.28402.zec@icir.org> <3aaaa3a0705160632r4ec0164t8bb8b714fec15426@mail.gmail.com>
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On Wednesday 16 May 2007 09:32:37 Chris wrote: > On 16/05/07, Marko Zec <zec@icir.org> wrote: > > On Monday 14 May 2007 22:47:57 Andre Oppermann wrote: > > > Julian Elischer wrote: > > > > Bjoern A. Zeeb wrote: > > > >> On Mon, 14 May 2007, Ed Schouten wrote: > > > >> > > > >> Hi, > > > >> > > > >>> * Andre Oppermann <andre@freebsd.org> wrote: > > > >>>> I'm working on a "light" variant of multi-IPv[46] per jail. > > > >>>> It doesn't > > > >>>> create an entirely new network instance per jail and > > > >>>> probably is more suitable for low- to mid-end (virtual) > > > >>>> hosting. In those cases you normally want the host > > > >>>> administrator to excercise full control over IP address and > > > >>>> firewall configuration of the individual jails. For > > > >>>> high-end stuff where you offer jail based virtual machines > > > >>>> or network and routing simulations Marco's work is more > > > >>>> appropriate. > > > >>> > > > >>> Is there a way for us to colaborate on this? I'd really love > > > >>> to work on this sort of stuff and I think it's really > > > >>> interesting to dig in that sort of code. > > > >>> > > > >>> I already wrote an initial patch which changes the system > > > >>> call and sysctl format of the jail structures which allow you > > > >>> to specify lists of addresses for IPv4 and IPv6. > > > > > > > > talk with Marko Zec about "immunes". > > > > > > > > http://www.tel.fer.hr/zec/vimage/ > > > > and http://www.tel.fer.hr/imunes/ > > > > > > > > It has a complete virtualized stack for each jail. > > > > ipfw, routing table, divert sockets, sysctls, statistics, > > > > netgraph etc. > > > > > > Like I said there is a place for both approaches and they are > > > complementary. A couple of hosting ISPs I know do not want to > > > give a full virtualized stack to their customers. They want to > > > retain full control over the network configuration inside and > > > outside of the jail. In those (mass-hosting) cases it is done > > > that way to ease support (less stuff users can fumble) and to > > > properly position those products against full virtual machines > > > and dedicated servers. Something like this: jail < vimage < > > > virtual machine < dedicated server. > > > > You're right we shouldn't look at virtualized stack as a > > replacement for jails. Every approach has its niche and use. > > > > > > He as a set of patches against 7-current that now implements > > > > nearly all the parts you need. It Will be discussed at the > > > > devsummit on Wed/Thurs and we'll be discussing whether it is > > > > suitable for general inclusion or to be kept as patches. Note, > > > > it can be compiled out, which leaves a pretty much binarily > > > > compatible OS, so I personally would like to see it included. > > > > > > I don't think it is mature enough for inclusion into the upcoming > > > 7.0R. Not enough integration time. Food for FreeBSD 8.0. > > > > Even not knowing how far exactly 7.0 is from being frozen and > > entering the release process, I'd agree with your point - the stack > > virtualization prototype for -CURRENT is still far from being ready > > for prime time. The fact that the patchsets I maintained for 4.11 > > were quite stable is of little significance now, given that the > > -CURRENT prototype is a from-scratch implementation of the same > > idea but using slightly different tricks, and of course the FreeBSD > > code base has evolved tremendeously over the years. What the > > prototype does demonstrate at this point however, is that the > > changes can be made to optionaly compile, that they should work > > fine on a multithreaded / SMP kernel, and that all this can be > > accomplished with relatively less churn to the existing code > > compared to what was done in 4.11 days. Knowing that I had a > > machine running a virtualized -CURRENT kernel under different kinds > > of workloads for over a month without a glitch might be considered > > encouranging but nothing spectacular... > > > > OTOH, even if we miss the window for sneaking this into 7.0-R, it > > would be a huge pitty not to at least reserve a few additional > > fields in various kernel structures needed to support stack > > virtualization. That way it would be possible to maintain a > > virtualized 7.0-R kernel in a separate code branch, which could be > > used as a snap-in replacement for the stock kernel even after API / > > ABI freeze comes into effect. This would allow us to give people > > an opportunity to conveniently test and play with the new framework > > on an otherwise production-grade OS, while continuing work towards > > (hopefully) merging of the chages into 8.0 at some point. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Marko > > > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > > "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > Would like to see this in 7.0 considering many of us have been > waiting for such a feature since 4.x days. There is patches that > make this work with 5.x and 6.x so I have always been puzzled why it > hasnt been commited to the base, clearly enough time to make 7.0 a > dream for desktop users but I see many server side things been pushed > aside. Please make this happen as waiting for 8.0 seems forever. I'm not aware of any stack virtualization patches floating around for 5.x or 6.x, at least not of anything that I wrote -> I was basically frozen in the 4.11 age until say 9-10 months ago... Marko > Chris > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"
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