From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu Jan 3 19:30:36 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4054014344B5 for ; Thu, 3 Jan 2019 19:30:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: from puchar.net (puchar.net [194.1.144.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "puchar.net", Issuer "puchar.net" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4D99C8B269 for ; Thu, 3 Jan 2019 19:30:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: Received: from 127.0.0.1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x03JUhBX041107 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 3 Jan 2019 20:30:43 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) Received: from localhost (puchar-wojtek@localhost) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id x03JUcRC041104; Thu, 3 Jan 2019 20:30:38 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 20:30:38 +0100 (CET) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Enji Cooper cc: Igor Mozolevsky , Hackers freeBSD Subject: Re: Speculative: Rust for base system components In-Reply-To: <7BCC2D20-7CC5-42B1-BBD2-F3D077D59081@gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <201901021829.x02IT4Kc064169@slippy.cwsent.com> <361CCB81-AEB6-4EAC-9604-CD8F4C63948C@gmail.com> <7BCC2D20-7CC5-42B1-BBD2-F3D077D59081@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (BSF 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4D99C8B269 X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wojtek@puchar.net designates 194.1.144.90 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=wojtek@puchar.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.80 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.992,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/mixed,text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[puchar.net]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: puchar.net]; CTYPE_MIXED_BOGUS(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[90.144.1.194.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.93)[-0.933,0]; IP_SCORE(-3.56)[ip: (-9.40), ipnet: 194.1.144.0/24(-4.70), asn: 43476(-3.76), country: PL(0.03)]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:43476, ipnet:194.1.144.0/24, country:PL]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2019 19:30:36 -0000 >> That's precisely how ideas that most people disagree with get *pushed* >> through by evangelists with confirmation bias! Like someone said >> earlier in the discussion: does Rust add anything? The answer is a >> resounding NO, save for bloat. > > And this is why one reason people say “FreeBSD is dying”. > dying for whom? From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu Jan 3 19:44:36 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1023F1434BD7 for ; Thu, 3 Jan 2019 19:44:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x734.google.com (mail-qk1-x734.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::734]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3608D8BC77 for ; Thu, 3 Jan 2019 19:44:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x734.google.com with SMTP id g125so20324052qke.4 for ; Thu, 03 Jan 2019 11:44:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=82MAUlK8szYRNSEHvDfyLFFbnDrLQyaTm4uu2QChS9o=; b=uQ6k/4voIttxbRlUY8BMZJMCNa2w0jCkF5rNb+JJVO93UPjWO3EvvfoIBuW/DHmU64 a8jj7x0SdrFDPC6/Nf+sl0ho+8FXgDUpValbxtbWYhZhQmNe66u75maC0XiMc0uczFih 8uyASG/gllpESxJO0yC8T7YSsabEJrIXZbM36gSGflzrrch5MMsEW6k1RhOhp1Zkhwre 7bTts7CHjaJfUKXm0vbLsQ8uGdmWCHszv1qCdxSOaxIF7Oz8aDYfS1bWDTbh3bLdDnB6 RqMQPu6+demvah3MYuGrHc7Rjw1w7QNAiXeokdBG6zaQFhp00162DGGOAPfKgdPtrtX+ Fozw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=82MAUlK8szYRNSEHvDfyLFFbnDrLQyaTm4uu2QChS9o=; b=b3j/qp792v3pYJNsJkOOfEaIJV+yMWwm77epYE6hJ+5c7n0Vhh7L5T0J2F/HguMAE6 eUn1Q29sKwX8Ypp0porESWvUeENYMhFGpGnSGIKNZljAH0banGjWUlCpbxSiwg9jski4 Qz+QqtK9nKuJ2DHGlunZFd0EOgxWka9KEfsTIsRZu3VzOioCvQQSejzKIvYOLRPJctrk ok9oN/6VD7bHncZM5Z4T4sW8/RW7r1SccZ1awsV3wP9eTLG0JeAS20amhyh6pqYfZvpU op33x/F/DaAxZMXKm/Urhf/VfGhy0nk70TzgZ84L8uY9Pq6d/4MezDgvvxQyWgM1Cdl/ G78g== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukcg1mz2hfvjV4THyoI03MuoKjMfiw0iKMDtmtXaNHo9ILSjBqp6 wf1oKEvgt/3iHHuqcJ7QUGXgZfIN6FqRXZ2xzvDafg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN7WDCf+t0ax2DxQKYdEphOAOIFOhCZ5arWYJVUsS1I+cvR8JO6XMTiLv/+g0B8SicEBWvoY4VWA9frX1QkiwBE= X-Received: by 2002:a37:9201:: with SMTP id u1mr46497444qkd.258.1546544673984; Thu, 03 Jan 2019 11:44:33 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201901021829.x02IT4Kc064169@slippy.cwsent.com> <361CCB81-AEB6-4EAC-9604-CD8F4C63948C@gmail.com> <7BCC2D20-7CC5-42B1-BBD2-F3D077D59081@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 12:44:22 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Speculative: Rust for base system components To: Wojciech Puchar Cc: Enji Cooper , Hackers freeBSD , Igor Mozolevsky X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 3608D8BC77 X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=uQ6k/4vo X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.43 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.997,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: ALT1.aspmx.l.google.com]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[4.3.7.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.88)[-0.883,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; IP_SCORE(-2.54)[ip: (-8.85), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.14), asn: 15169(-1.64), country: US(-0.08)]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[gmail.com] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2019 19:44:36 -0000 On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 12:32 PM Wojciech Puchar wrote: > >> That's precisely how ideas that most people disagree with get *pushed* > >> through by evangelists with confirmation bias! Like someone said > >> earlier in the discussion: does Rust add anything? The answer is a > >> resounding NO, save for bloat. > > > > And this is why one reason people say =E2=80=9CFreeBSD is dying=E2=80= =9D. > > > dying for whom? > And who is getting punished? We're having an interesting discussion about a possible new technology to use and developing criteria to know when we will know if/when it's useful. Warner