Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 10:48:19 +1030 From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com> To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Yvonne Lehey <yvonne@lemis.com> Subject: French spelling (was: Regulated names (was: Crazy Laws)) Message-ID: <19981227104818.A12346@freebie.lemis.com> In-Reply-To: <19981226170235.A20832@keltia.freenix.fr>; from Ollivier Robert on Sat, Dec 26, 1998 at 05:02:35PM %2B0100 References: <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <Your <4.1.19981224112052.05a31740@127.0.0.1> <4.1.19981224174155.03dd8670@127.0.0.1> <368378AB.969463E2@uk.radan.com> <4.1.19981225181200.05a201b0@mail.lariat.org> <xzpg1a3mzhe.fsf@flood.ping.uio.no> <19981226131644.I12346@freebie.lemis.com> <xzpaf0bvuu6.fsf@flood.ping.uio.no> <19981226170235.A20832@keltia.freenix.fr>
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On Saturday, 26 December 1998 at 17:02:35 +0100, Ollivier Robert wrote:
> According to Dag-Erling Smorgrav:
>> The maxim Brett wrote is grammatically correct, but kinda flat ("each
>> has his taste"). The correct version is the one I wrote, which
>> translates to "to each his taste". And you may *not* substitute "à"
>> for "a" in "chacun a son goût", because the "a" there is the second
>> person singular of the verb "avoir" in the present tense.
>
> Right. When you can say "avait" (had) in place of "a" and keep the same
> meaning, then you know you can't use the "à" word (mnemonic way to remember
> when to you one or the other).
>
> you can't substitute "avait" in the following:
>
> Il était à la maison (he was at the house)
>
> but you can here:
>
> Il a chaud (he's warm)
Sure, but off the point. The saying is `chacun à son goût', and it's
fairly well known in English (though most wouldn't know where to put
the accents; and it's definitely à, not a). I looked it up in
Larousse, but it only had foreign-language sayings, so I looked it up
in Webster, and found it. Translated as ``everyone to his taste'',
which is not a good translation of ``chacun''.
>> (and "honni" is spelled "honni", not "honi")
>
> Well, it could be spelled either way. It comes from the verb "honnir" (to
> disgrace) and the translation for the saying is
>
> Evil be to him who evil thinks
Yes, but both of you have missed the point. This is one of the mottos
of the British royal family, and it's spelt as indicated.
Incidentally, compare French ``honte'', also spelt with one n.
Amusingly, the other motto of the British royal family is ``Ich
dien'', which just goes to show that the British never had their own
royal family.
>> BTW "connoisseur" is a funny example of a French word that has been in
>> the English language for so long that it's no longer spelled the same
>> way in French; most of the "oi" diphtongs have become "ai" (françois
>> -> français, connoître -> connaître) but the English have kept the
>> archaic spelling in most cases (connoisseur, reconnoitre) but not all
>> (reconnaissance)
>
> The funny thing is that one has to pronounce the archaix version the same
> as the new one. The new spelling is at least consistent with the
> pronouncation.
In French, yes. In English, you pronounce the `oi' as a schwa (which
I can't represent in this character set, but is basically an empty
vowel).
Greg
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