From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Fri Jun 21 14:43:24 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9538A15B3091 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2019 14:43:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9BB66BE78 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2019 14:43:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 9769615B308F; Fri, 21 Jun 2019 14:43:23 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: current@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57EDF15B308E for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2019 14:43:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com (out3-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.27]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 311DF6BE77 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2019 14:43:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F3C322036; Fri, 21 Jun 2019 10:43:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 21 Jun 2019 10:43:20 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=samsco.org; h= content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; s=fm3; bh=u ipeGekW9SEit3VeF9bPLMhc5yPKVC20h48zNabkJQ8=; b=OXhQxzewguBmRRIZw tLlrvM1F0tOLlDDRpor8/7N484CdEZlP3zBQ80H4q6zh+P1+A7ZoSbQ7rEwItDCq z7g2Ur9vxm4tnqm5DYID14uVwgLzdwP+JC6kLw7wTctJUNtVws9QXphVFzqV2Lse BD8ajjHAx8pgx0xetk4YoMzACJiJCILpA/a443kq5nviMR6yCaz1Riy/e7vhpOfn v2+R3ZsfASK/2jJ0908qdHWjLf27lEHbGuA5u0cDrrKmngA4RirMBIRsMFb3+Ot/ nt9o3q9UKB/F5WY8wPt2JzeVYocJbQT2YjABUXeh9LpGrXZomEk0PwXk/FzbKQW0 djR+w== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=uipeGekW9SEit3VeF9bPLMhc5yPKVC20h48zNabkJ Q8=; b=P34SHstv70PzmwDq16cR+EKPKYC7d3Q69WxV4YsatqiNRyUSito0FB0sJ oYMYxau8OxlRSmXhFeng1xo0ZMt4vAGa0XPCUvuOEfckh3Op9xH5WYclT6B9qn4q 9/ueDwBBHKV5CthpwdzPoRtbpYhssK+zxWxXMCznVxs3dN2lJ1WzJQ2TNLAJoNfS 57empjwen6HeO/rw3hB2smMM6ts3QzFqZj0Z8MftWr3luq4m8qrLpUqffoigJ7Fn g4xsotTrGcGAAup34IzgcfnA7Me3aQpM3Ol0wrXcz+UIYviYkPzPICojVp9nPUCa rJn7B6MrO4o1xXJ6wVlAtR029bEFw== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduvddrtdeigdekfecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurheptggguffhjgffgffkfhfvofesthhqmh dthhdtjeenucfhrhhomhepufgtohhtthcunfhonhhguceoshgtohhtthhlsehsrghmshgt ohdrohhrgheqnecukfhppeekrdegiedrkeelrddvudefnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfh hrohhmpehstghothhtlhesshgrmhhstghordhorhhgnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgep td X-ME-Proxy: Received: from [192.168.0.146] (unknown [8.46.89.213]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 3F4848005A; Fri, 21 Jun 2019 10:43:16 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Subject: Re: sys/modules/sdio broken in .svn_revision 348842 'opt_cam.h' not found From: Scott Long In-Reply-To: <201906180147.x5I1ksVi028507@fire.js.berklix.net> Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 08:43:15 -0600 Cc: current@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <205835F0-6DE0-4B7F-8AC7-D1F414370BBF@samsco.org> References: <201906180147.x5I1ksVi028507@fire.js.berklix.net> To: "Julian H. Stacey" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 311DF6BE77 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=samsco.org header.s=fm3 header.b=OXhQxzew; dkim=pass header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm3 header.b=P34SHstv; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of scottl@samsco.org designates 66.111.4.27 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=scottl@samsco.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.59 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[samsco.org:s=fm3,messagingengine.com:s=fm3]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:66.111.4.27]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[samsco.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[samsco.org:+,messagingengine.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[in2-smtp.messagingengine.com,in1-smtp.messagingengine.com,in2-smtp.messagingengine.com,in1-smtp.messagingengine.com,in2-smtp.messagingengine.com,in1-smtp.messagingengine.com,in2-smtp.messagingengine.com,in1-smtp.messagingengine.com]; IP_SCORE(-3.52)[ip: (-9.73), ipnet: 66.111.4.0/24(-4.75), asn: 11403(-3.07), country: US(-0.06)]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.96)[-0.960,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11403, ipnet:66.111.4.0/24, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[27.4.111.66.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 14:43:24 -0000 > On Jun 17, 2019, at 7:46 PM, Julian H. Stacey wrote: >=20 >>>=20 >>> Stop. >>> make[3]: stopped in /usr/src/usr.bin/mkesdb_static >>>=20 >>> A double waste of CPU & human time & power in a hot office. >>> Commit bits used to be suspended for un-buildable code. I'll boot >>> stable. >>=20 >> Since you seem to be so focused on mean-spirited criticism of others, >> I'm sure you'll understand when I ask... >>=20 >> Have you *seriosly* been using and building freebsd this long and you >> don't know that an opt_*.h file is generated as part of the build and >> exists only in the object directory, so that searching for it under >> /usr/src or /usr/include would be... let's see, how did you put = it?... >> Oh yeah: A double waste of CPU & human time. >=20 > Personal noise is irrelevant. >=20 > Facts:=20 > Unchecked commits broken make buildworld twice,=20 > Time was wasted by bad commits. =20 > My time ran out.=20 > Current does not benefit from commits that break buildworld. > I (like a friend before) must switch to stable to avoid breakage.=20 >=20 > Time was, ~25 years back, when FreeBSD commiters who screwed > the build were awarded a conical hat & took a one week holiday. A > mild rebuke for wasting people's time, & a short refreshing > break to go smell fresh air. No not coffee, but fresh air. I=E2=80=99ve been following FreeBSD since 1992, before it was even = called FreeBSD, and I was reflecting on the =E2=80=9Cold days=E2=80=9D = recently. You know what? The old days sucked; I hold no romance for them. There was rampant passive-aggressive hostility, toxicity and shaming was accepted and encouraged, and the community was pretty much an insular and exclusionary clique. Mistakes were to be feared, not learned from. Any mistake was equated with a personal moral failing. Yeah, good technical work was done, but at the expense of quickly alienating and driving away many good people who didn=E2=80=99t want to put up with all of that bullshit. There=E2=80=99s no denying that it=E2=80=99s frustrating when a bug is = introduced, especially when it causes lost time and productivity. Passively accusing people of being lazy or incompetent (see your =E2=80=9CUnchecked commits=E2=80=9D comment) doesn=E2=80=99t help fix that though. If = anything, it burns out and drives away the people who are in the best position to fix the problems. It doesn=E2=80=99t make the community or the code better in = the long term, even if you think that it=E2=80=99s motivating people in the = short term. Please take your conical hat somewhere else and do something productive and positive with it, I don=E2=80=99t want the toxicity in my FreeBSD community anymore. Thanks, Scott