From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 23 15:22:34 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 480FC16A4CE; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 15:22:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtpq1.home.nl (smtpq1.home.nl [213.51.128.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFADF43D39; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 15:22:31 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from dodell@sitetronics.com) Received: from [213.51.128.136] (port=54813 helo=smtp5.home.nl) by smtpq1.home.nl with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1ChUnO-0000dO-C3; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 16:22:30 +0100 Received: from cc740438-a.deven1.ov.home.nl ([82.75.136.183]:4467 helo=[192.168.1.42]) by smtp5.home.nl with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1ChUnN-0008UD-4Q; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 16:22:29 +0100 Message-ID: <41CAE2B4.6010004@sitetronics.com> Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 16:22:28 +0100 From: "Devon H. O'Dell" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Carsten Zimmermann References: <39703F0F.4E843084.3F8EDD3A@cs.com> <34514.212.202.153.78.1103806722.squirrel@www.aegisnet.biz> <41CAC836.1080402@sitetronics.com> <20041223151226.GA721@galadriel.bbk.hh.aegisnet.de> In-Reply-To: <20041223151226.GA721@galadriel.bbk.hh.aegisnet.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AtHome-MailScanner-Information: Please contact support@home.nl for more information X-AtHome-MailScanner: Found to be clean cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD's Visual Identity: Outdated? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 15:22:34 -0000 Carsten Zimmermann wrote: > Dear Devon - > > I understand that this thread might be heavily annoying to those who are > reading doc@ and advocacy@ for decades now. I admit I am too lazy to > search the mail archives of these last X decades before I reply to a > living thread (I use to do so when I _start_ a thread which might have > been discussed in the past). I have no bad consciousness with that, I'm > sorry. > > I don't share your point of view that past discussions should not be > re-heated just because there was no evident conclusion the last time. > Who knows if there aren't any parameters changed which could lead to > something this time? In contrast to that, your harsh comments are > probably suffocating exactly this. To my mind, the posting of the URL in > the archives, which was very helpful, indeed, at an earlier point in this > thread would have done a lot more! I agree, it sure would have. I didn't have enough time to dig it up, though :). I'm certainly willing to accept that things are different this time around. Last time, there was a partial commitment from a designer from a fairly high class web design company who had expressed an interest in doing a new site, assuming that the work would be tax-deductable. The short answer is that it is. It will just take a good bit of work and a good bit of collaboration. Are there companies that have the time to work for free, given a tax break? Probably. I don't know who they are, though. I encourage those to step up who might fit the description above. I'd like to make it clear that it's pretty vital that the people who do the page should have past experience in the field of design and art. There are plenty of people in the age range of 14 to 25 who have time and experience with webpages (and I think everybody has experience with webpages), but I do believe there is merit in finding someone with an acclaimed professional and / or an educational background in the area. > Me, I am no FreeBSD sourcecode jockey by now nor am I a webdesigner. I'm > a FreeBSD adocate and maybe some sort of potential doc-writer. But that > doesn't matter either - I USE FreeBSD and this makes me, FreeBSD being a > community driven project, a stake-holder who wants to take part on this > discussion. And there's many to which the above applies! Indeed. > I am willing to help, be it through actually commiting patches, > templates, (...) or just through _opinion_. Conscensus was that there is > hardly anyone who wants to have a lot of work (and spent free-time) > sacrificed just because nobody seems to want what has been produced in > the end. > > These people should be backed and encouraged through community's > _opinion_. That's why it is just right to continue this thread even > though it has been discussed *a lot* in the past. Maybe it concludes to > something _this_ time. I encourage everybody with skills to contribute. But please do understand that all work that has been done in the past was simply ``not good enough.'' > I agree, however, that those contributing to this thread should take > advantage of the past discussion: we don't need to reinvent the wheel > every halt a year... But this can only be achieved if the people who > know it's been discussed before - people like you - give polite hints on > where to find the information. Indeed. If you've got any questions as to where we got off-list at the time, please feel free to send me an email. I'm somewhat jaded on the subject though, since I did spend a good while brainstorming and coordinating and those who had given commitment didn't follow through. > regards, > Carsten Kind regards, Devon H. O'Dell [snip]