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[209.85.166.41]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m132sm21391683ioa.53.2019.04.17.10.36.10 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 17 Apr 2019 10:36:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-f41.google.com with SMTP id x3so21239776iol.10; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 10:36:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a6b:691a:: with SMTP id e26mr31328433ioc.124.1555522570364; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 10:36:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201904162251.x3GMp2aF097103@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> <4d6b8a14-b053-9ed1-14b2-bbc359ac9413@FreeBSD.org> <48b25255-3d66-69fc-658b-6176ebaf4640@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: Reply-To: cem@freebsd.org From: Conrad Meyer X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: svn commit: r346250 - in head: share/man/man4 share/man/man9 sys/dev/random sys/kern sys/libkern sys/sys To: Warner Losh Cc: src-committers , svn-src-all , svn-src-head Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-src-committers@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 2D4728AD49 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.98 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.980,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] Status: O X-BeenThere: svn-src-head@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: SVN commit messages for the src tree for head/-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2019 14:07:17 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2019 10:35:59 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2019 14:07:17 -0000 Hi Warner, On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 10:16 AM Warner Losh wrote: > I'm going to put a very fine point on this: any hard-requirement of entro= py sources is a non-starter. If you require that, your commit will be backe= d out and/or hacked around by the addition of a nob in the future. It will = happen. Don't pretend you can say 'but things weren't random enough' will c= arry the day. It will not. > > That's why I specifically requested a MD routine to be called when there'= s no source of entropy: that will let special needs folks do the right thin= g. It's also why I asked for a way to say "don't ever block waiting for ent= ropy, soldier on the best you can, but set some variable that can be expose= d to userland so that early in /etc/rc automation can be written to decide = what to do when that condition exists: generate entropy and reboot, report = it to some central control, nothing" since that will give the tools for dif= ferent reactions. > > For our application it is *NEVER* OK to block the boot because there's no= t enough randomness. We'd rather solider on with crappy randomness and want= the boot to proceed not matter what. We want the information that we had t= o make compromises along the way to make it happen so we can decide the rig= ht course of action for our appliances. I think John's proposed big knob to disable hard-requirement of entropy, and a warning on dmesg, pretty much covers your applications' needs. Do you agree? The random framework has already got ways to register random sources; special needs MD folks can always register their own fako fast random source. I.e., the randomdev entropy intake framework is already general with room for MD-specific drivers (of which several exist today). Take care, Conrad