From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Feb 3 16:59:22 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81762EDB6AF for ; Sat, 3 Feb 2018 16:59:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic310-13.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic310-13.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [77.238.177.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EA30071A0F for ; Sat, 3 Feb 2018 16:59:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: MJYsOZAVM1k8zUjdnjRc2A00mVWK3l8OtuXWdXfYbk6XNTBr2L96Yi8ZInWjDMt aCCIqWhHPevjFUKbSqP13BnYl6qmXdyiEwQM.TqUarx1Ao03y5Xo1cFfQqRlqtzrebidQ_wriJ_F ZE42dneNCrw6R1lareRgFJEA_yKKfXY4.lxw9KrlPAUr7AJvZe9NHgkZwWMl5QmUx38F7UAO7rl8 Ijh8jOt4RC_ToLNdanjMLIIQASRifCwYj4p8AWwD94Meh8.6XZAIekqPc7GfWQbSkzy7g_frZu2R 40RuAsOu5JzHnet57Ue_UViw4Z8MIHD7G7Xc3BXw4ZgW7WouO092RHRSBKhoY50gPTadje76xTWf y5aVFdLe1cO30QJ420ByKxliLOCl5mevh1Dyg5bd9JCLs4.USUUazCgb8j.YHisDQS2Oi__PqSnB x08UCpzBLLFkYTcKH3TYSavWoMbtpqO6xvQY_.URrCDOn0m5eT5UVhxMxcNg5YorYaLjbDBgYp1v a2S4lmUsMacRbzX7PiOkvr3LdQJBOTdrffde5cAa.Lg4GR6Fo0Uc- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic310.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sat, 3 Feb 2018 16:59:19 +0000 Received: from smtp165.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (EHLO archlinux.localdomain) ([46.228.39.32]) by smtp413.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (JAMES SMTP Server ) with ESMTPA ID 477f1e93f70e20461c3e28380b7b36be for ; Sat, 03 Feb 2018 16:59:17 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2018 17:59:19 +0100 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Response to Meltdown and Spectre Message-ID: <20180203175919.69a5dd44@archlinux.localdomain> In-Reply-To: References: <23154.11945.856955.523027@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <5A726B60.7040606@gmail.com> <92120E50-19A7-4A44-90DF-505243D77259@kreme.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.16.0git24 (GTK+ 2.24.32; x86_64-arch-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2018 16:59:22 -0000 On Sat, 3 Feb 2018 16:18:30 -0000 (UTC), Christian Weisgerber wrote: >On 2018-02-01, "@lbutlr" wrote: > >> That seems highly unlikely. It will damage the role of Intel in >> the server market fora time, but the trouble is that AMD's behavior >> has been at least as bad as Intel's, if not worse, in regards to >> Meltdown, so there's not a clearly better choice even though the >> AMD chips have less issues. > >AMD's initial response appeared to have been written by a PR person >who simply summarized the vulnerability information from the >Spectre/Meltdown papers and deployed the usual head-in-the-sand >position that there is no vulnerability until an exploit is >demonstrated. > >AMD has always said that their x86 CPUs are not vulnerable to >Meltdown and nobody is contradicting them on this. However, like >everybody else implementing speculative executaion, they are >vulnerable to Spectre variants 1 and 2. The initial response >downplayed this dangerously, but they eventually admitted it. > >The best reaction came from ARM. They provided a COMPLETE list of >all their CPUs that are affected, and they documented another >vulnerability (Meltdown 3a, reading of supervisor registers from >user mode) that had not even been considered in the original research >papers. They are all liars, https://security-center.intel.com/advisory.aspx?intelid=INTEL-SA-00088&languageid=en-fr doesn't list my Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU G1840. I seriously doubt that it isn't affected. However, using FreeBSD I can't do the work of my domain. Using AMD processors I only made bad experiences for my domain, now with my first Intel CPU, I'm much more troublefree. the domain is real-time pro-audio. Blanket judgement regarding CPU, as well as kernel design are foolish. I didn't test if I need to do it, but I welcom that I could disable page-table isolation for new Linux kernels, since the Meltdown security vulnerability is irrelevand for an audio workstaton. In short, we should take the chance to reconsider the one computer for everything approach. Why not using computers with operating systems and CPUs tailored to their purposes? The one computer for everything attitude implies issues. I'm using a record player to listen to recordings and a washing machine to wash my clothes, they aren't networked. I'm using one and the same computer as a digital audio workstation and to access the Internet for emailing, browsing and updating, but I don't do both at the same time, so different boot options are helpful. For audio work I might buy a new computer with more horse power and more power consumption in the future and use another computer with less horse power and less power consumpton for emailing, browsing and downloading updates. The real issue is to expect the "eierlegende Wollmilchsau" (all-in-one device or creature suitable for every purpose), see https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f3/Wollmilchsau.jpg , since such monsters are asking for trouble.