From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Wed Apr 20 03:15:51 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A2E4B14B0B for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2016 03:15:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-io0-x22a.google.com (mail-io0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DED731FEA for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2016 03:15:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-io0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id 2so39634609ioy.1 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 20:15:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=sender:subject:mime-version:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id :references:to; bh=Bf2vBkEBArnTvGLmE6RB1VfBXAvSxRuk3tCDFrznlIk=; b=R7cdd1WKPNWjOBjTlPJ/x0vxUATiqUhnl+VJ+i/V3ASa0AuZKH+GqQ43eOXJNssjEK YALMNht2rPlROP7Ji3R/K46etmeC4H5EBeaeEWTtBFF4axmEilgR3VNN5VYqjOYqQkcy y+HVVOiftSwfo4I5YI86282UanDFaVu9DXAYmVNa4CE7PKAf68gqJvXTsIjSAcBnubSE JNhpBOwbmEas9sFAiT+sB6/Q1VcgYhND4Xd+1hK+7DON3jH9Pcz6Zu8uLpjxfIn8luwY NwbQJI2FIVfVc4/vxnp/8aewr1cr1wdcv5rtUD8peG16OYhu0lc9z8j/thwz5pB/sLo8 sbzA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:mime-version:from:in-reply-to :date:cc:message-id:references:to; bh=Bf2vBkEBArnTvGLmE6RB1VfBXAvSxRuk3tCDFrznlIk=; b=kvq6zkSKR//b7zbUUk80zFdYEGtB8hQ0VW/rzNyGiDMKAVRNouiKezVITshGCHIJ9k 6urzFkzEgTlcnvtYkNDmQfXtmqKavZUd3slT1nPjzHJzQC/YVBTEoIa6VZ2NcVPP+gUE o3bzh7wORCUpYeS+24daTLsewCy+/6qY/BoHP2HUtttULZLFaM0//eVJBIBuLv0f9KVa CMfv1zDgZvkXmQ+2O2X7AdZvrdrHzvttJgAwPdhZw4YolIkM+N/LDLVfd1EEb7iOMBP+ F1qq71ky8fFhX2xMsO0Y7th81ENq/4ru7Z8KEBe7ppZbHA/Z547H2Yp5B/iYHdMXASFt hIzg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOPr4FUi3TP97Z0jIwHGzjdZdwFET/rZ31Cr1PKxcNcZ0/aM+r8uhjV9eSfFaMzmlr05qw== X-Received: by 10.107.37.12 with SMTP id l12mr6757991iol.138.1461122150113; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 20:15:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mac-wired.nflx.bsdimp.com ([50.253.99.174]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 69sm1761237ioo.20.2016.04.19.20.15.48 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 19 Apr 2016 20:15:49 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Warner Losh Subject: Re: [CFT] packaging the base system with pkg(8) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9B59112F-620A-4CA1-B4E4-D3C52A22C826"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 2.5.2 From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: <5716AD65.8070007@shrew.net> Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 21:15:47 -0600 Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Message-Id: References: <76093.1461096570@critter.freebsd.dk> <5716AD65.8070007@shrew.net> To: Matthew Grooms X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 03:15:51 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_9B59112F-620A-4CA1-B4E4-D3C52A22C826 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Apr 19, 2016, at 4:12 PM, Matthew Grooms wrote: >=20 > On 4/19/2016 3:09 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: >> As far as I know, nobody is taking the source code or the Makefiles >> away, so if somebody doesn't like the system being distributed with >> pkg, they can very well roll their own. >>=20 >> It's nice to see the level of enthusiasm the FreeBSD project can >> muster, I just wish it wasn't always enthusiasm for stopping = progress. >>=20 >=20 > Maybe I missed an email in this thread, but I don't recall anyone = completely rejecting the idea of packaging the base system. What I see = is a discussion related to doing it in the best way possible. Sadly the tenor and tone of the discussion isn=E2=80=99t one where = progress is made. The tone has been a bit toxic and demanding, which = grinds people into dust, rather than motivating them to fix things. You = might call it a discussion, but it reads to me more as a bunch of angry = villagers storming the castle. No good can come from that. Tone down the = outrage by a factor of 100 and try to have the conversation again. Warner --Apple-Mail=_9B59112F-620A-4CA1-B4E4-D3C52A22C826 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJXFvRjAAoJEGwc0Sh9sBEAdIsQANVvvNwp/eegfAkWPdiJnL0m Wb0F2F9AFyhYOnfspOJmnlxfqEaZBrVZFXyEgYnmq5444cQYWCcpxqBn8rfhqwrO +BvpHuA6ZHH0j+m56aMIbAFcq77s+HQ26k20yL8XD19XjP11cylttnHP5WASVSAQ /4l9PpwR2fI12Wu1hmzdtFlBjl29mODGILOquD7DMGENJ9bRMWTC3Xaj99NKo7ve wWa4Z6axWshurF5K76nvbz/tL+8Lv2XjgBWPegSxAokxvx23AIvcMJhnZJ/ZetAD P/UCWhknRv4+j+Ev00p92Sk5CrIa1HAahn3EVsIe33udHvlVRhFCny6Q8gKM+KXD bSKTZWOXNq5EK18TsP1rwxpAS9RAy05SgzsbtfLMIEnQGmQQMK3FKEk2T7WuVUja SFQdLKI/bXVB9uXjtCiTqgb19tY5XFCKN+ORPmgcmSSIYN36PEp8U/CYeOAXYPcF NSDgYo/ki3DvuBfirh14E2aCpF8s7dOE1yTEL1xRFVkJdYWNGG6zDDee/gIPg3hq LSt4ABALx34R8AT52bb3UM2LhMNbmal8Btu++gimplhKC3O1x5f48YXh7pvyWqlR uHPL2rIiJ1lpA+CqTTBtlQ50E6kaWk2JMxJ7o2VJesxz96mu4vd2wi0AraAF74d7 5HKqEcHRHEBDoZsQ54Al =How5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_9B59112F-620A-4CA1-B4E4-D3C52A22C826--