Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 12:05:14 -0500 (EST) From: FreeBSD Bob <fbsdbob@weedcon1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> To: drew@multinet-media.com (Drew Wiggins) Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "easy installation"!!!!! yeah right Message-ID: <199910311705.MAA25791@weedcon1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> In-Reply-To: <381A3E1A.C5372A5C@multinet-media.com> from Drew Wiggins at "Oct 29, 1999 07:38:51 pm"
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> I've been debating whether or not to post to this legacy thread.
> But I figure, what the heck...I'll add my 2 cents to the pot and
> maybe someone can cash in on a car or boat or something.
Well, IMHO, the discussion is a good way to feel out the common wisdom.
So, yer zwei pfennigs is welcome.
.....
> ..... If it was easy
> then everyone would do it. The hard is what makes it good.
> ( or maybe that's just me being a control-freak again ).
Generally agreed, but, for the sake of discussion, we have to consider
the future. There will come a point in time, if FreeBSD is going to
survive with reasonable PR, userbase, generic utility, etc., that it
will have to consider joe enduser running the home box on cablenet.
Joe user is not the professional Berserkeley type, nor the AT&T suits.
But, he is the guy fed up with Gatesware, and has heard a little or
a lot of buzz about this thing *nix (mostly via Penguin buzz) down
at the coffeeshop or the bookstore. Now, if we, as Berserkely types
want to compete in that market, for joe user, then we have to present
ourselves a little better, or perhaps differently, than we would to
the longhair bearded sandal crew that I grew up in. The sandal crew
is gonna get it done, one way or the other. So, that's a null issue.
But, I sense, from reading 500 emails a day, on the list (whew!),
that there is a need for something less sandal crew, and a little more
geard towards garnering our share of the Penguins-to-be. We can't
expect to flesh out our flock by just catching the discontented
Penguins. Although there is merit for using the Penguin school for
our Basic Training, I think we should approach it more directly than
that. Folks, the budding *nix community has gotten bigger than just
the Berserkeley sandal crowd and the geek compsci majors. If we fail
to accommodate the joe endusers, then we are missing the boat in a
big way.
How do we do that? Good question, but, there are some serious things
that should be considered, based upon what I am gleaning from all the
newsfeeds regarding *nix, as well as our own lists.
1. We do need some kind of better training algorithm for the newbie
types that are not the professionals with years of experience,
or the compsci majors.
2. We do need some serious on-line training materials, perhaps like
some of the OSU courses, or that kind of thing, presented in a way
that will immediately catch the incoming newbie, and guide them
along.
3. We do need some kind of hands-one test drive machine, either via
the website, OR, via something as watered down as a Training Wheels
version of the system that comes up out of a dos shell. Such a
version could be used for evaluation, for training, and for a
one-upsmanship PR coup.
The above is only IMHO, and we all know everyone is entitled to one
IMHO, just like they are entitled to one arse. But, I do sense
we can't remain the cloistered Berserkeley sandal crew, forever.
> Is RTFM a prerequisite for new UNIX users? If they want to
> get anything out of me it is, and I'm generally a nice guy. I think
> most people feel the same way.
RTFM is always important. But, I sense our FM's are needing some
clarity. They are quite good for the professional, and most every
tidbit is there, somewhere, but, sometimes it can be difficult to
find.
> If you've been monkey-trained to point and click, and you
> are looking for a starting place, then master what you know: learn
> dos inside and out, network functions, telnet, FTP, hosts, lmhosts,
> establish a general knowledge of networking, write some batch files,
> mess around with autoexec.bat and config.sys, learn a programming
> language ( VB does not count ). It will make the transition a lot
> easier. Then pickup a shell account and read a book on dos->unix
> command translations. There are probably more similarities than
> you imagine.
The problem is that joe enduser does not come from a dos background,
anymore, so that method of training is gone.
He can't just pick up a shell account anymore, because they are
harder and harder to find with everything becoming webbized.
He needs the account on his own hardware, for even the most basic
training.
Forget anything dos... dos does not exist anymore. You have to start
WITH *nix directly. Now, the problem is getting joe enduser there,
directly.
> Will a try-out version of FBSD work...who knows? If it helps
> build better users, then I'm all for it. If it creates a overpopulated
> group of quiters who whine and moan, then I think I could do w/o.
> IMHO, I think it may provide people who think they are interested
> a chance to make a better decision without us all having to listen to
> them and ourselves discussing what we've all heard a million times
> ( as I know this is not new information, so hold the hot stuff ).
Whiners go elsewhere. Serious joe endusers are most welcome to sign
on board. Perhaps it is time to finalize discussions, and take some
proactive tack (to borrow buzzwords).
> Last but not least, let's make a quick comparison. Let's say
> you just bought a brand new stick-shift Corvette. Then decided
> that you didn't want to deal with having to learn how to drive a
> car with a manual transmission. Would you complain to the
> manufacturers, that they made the car too difficult to drive?
> Or would you opt to drive another car, that's more suited to your
> driving preferences? Just a thought.
Interesting aside with the auto bits. If you buy a hot rod, and
you want to race with the bigboyz, you have to go through something
like Bondurant's racing school, or that sort of thing, for hands-on
training, before they even let you out with the 'vette.
Sadly, with *nix, they shovel you out the door onto the track, and
say crash first, and then ask for help, but first RTFM. Sadly, there
aren't many Formula 1 or CART racing manuals to read.
I still stand by my contention that we need something for the
joe enduser crowd, rather than rely on Penguin Basic Training,
(although that method seems to work, too).
Bob
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