Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2017 09:26:10 -0500 From: Karl Denninger <karl@denninger.net> To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SSD errors Message-ID: <d64efa9d-ebe6-b141-44ae-0aad07032a60@denninger.net> In-Reply-To: <02898e76-9285-03e7-e76a-77a5290376b9@fjl.co.uk> References: <20170413205932.GJ2149@shrubbery.net> <02898e76-9285-03e7-e76a-77a5290376b9@fjl.co.uk>
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This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms040301070301060709040608 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 4/16/2017 03:49, Frank Leonhardt wrote: > On 13/04/2017 21:59, heasley wrote: >> <snip> >> When I push a lot of data to them, such as an rsync, I receive errors >> like >> the below. If I move drives between slots, it seems to follow the >> chassis >> slots, those closest to the power supply, but I'm not positive about >> this. >> >> I suppose the questions for list are: >> - have I missed any fbsd ssd-specific configuration? >> >> - all 4 have non-zero UDMA_CRC_Error_Count counters; not many, about t= he >> same number, which I believe implies electrical interference - most= >> likely in the cable or chassis backplane. Should I buy some specif= ic >> model cable? other recommendations? > <snip> > > I'm not aware of any SSD-specific stuff you've missed. The SSD option > on the initialisation code in the BIOS is probably just there because > there's no need to wait for spin-up time (as you probably thought too).= > > So I don't have an answer, but here are a few thoughts: > > I think it's the CRC error (out of that lot) that you should be > worried about. It means that the drive wrote data, but when it read it > back it didn't match. With ST506 this could (and often was) a cable > fault but not with IDE. This doesn't mean dodgy cables can't cause you > problems with IDE; only that they'd manifest differently. If the drive > wrote the data to the flash with a CRC and then the CRC didn't match > later, it doesn't make any difference if the data was corrupted on > it's way to the drive, or even if it was corrupted on its way back > (ZFS would pick that up). So it must have been corrupted on-drive. > Right? (I could be wrong about where your CRC errors are being > tested/detected, so not necessarily right). > > So with this in mind, why should the drive's location on the shelf > matter (if it does make a difference). I can think of two reasons - > electromagnetic interference from adjacent circuits or PSU problems. > > So if it were me, I'd check the interference theory by using longer > cables and spreading the drives out. Serial transfer on long cables > isn't really a problem like it was with parallel. That's the easy check= =2E > > Then it's on to PSU issues. Does an SSD use more or less power than > spinning rust? Really? Most people assume they'll use less but it's > not as much less as you think, and it varies in different ways. If the > PSU can't cope with the peak (e.g. while it's writing). > > IT people will know all about watts. Add up the number of watts on all > your drives and if it's <=3D the number of watts written on your PSU, > cushty. > > Wrong! An engineer will tell you you can't add watts together and get > anything meaningful. And believing the label on a PSU is a mug's game. > So, if you've got a decent oscilloscope take a look at the supply > rails where they enter the drives. Try writing, and if you get so much > as a blip on the voltage then do something about it. > > If you haven't got a 'scope to hand, I'd try running (some) the drives > of a different PSU and see that makes a difference. > > Although I haven't hit this problem myself, I'd be surprised if the > same PSU design intended to power spinning rust at a relatively > constant current could cope well with an SSD going from nothing much > to lots to nothing much again over a very short space of time. If I > was connecting a different PSU to the SSD I'd load it with some real > drives just to stabilise the current output a bit (i.e. plug an old > drive or two on to some of the other spare outlets). > > Then there's always the chance it's over-cooking, but I think you'd > have mentioned if they were getting very hot. > > Regards, Frank. > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hardware > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-hardware-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" Flaky power has been the cause of more intermittent and very odd problems, especially under load, than you can count. I always get suspicious of power issues when the system seems fine right up until you place it under heavy load, then bad things happen -- and I'm usually righ= t. I second Frank's suggestion. --=20 Karl Denninger karl@denninger.net <mailto:karl@denninger.net> /The Market Ticker/ /[S/MIME encrypted email preferred]/ --------------ms040301070301060709040608 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgMFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCC BlwwggZYMIIEQKADAgECAgE9MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAMIGQMQswCQYDVQQGEwJVUzEQMA4G A1UECBMHRmxvcmlkYTESMBAGA1UEBxMJTmljZXZpbGxlMRkwFwYDVQQKExBDdWRhIFN5c3Rl bXMgTExDMRwwGgYDVQQDExNDdWRhIFN5c3RlbXMgTExDIENBMSIwIAYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhND dWRhIFN5c3RlbXMgTExDIENBMB4XDTE2MTIxODE5NDUzNVoXDTIxMTIxNzE5NDUzNVowVzEL MAkGA1UEBhMCVVMxEDAOBgNVBAgTB0Zsb3JpZGExGTAXBgNVBAoTEEN1ZGEgU3lzdGVtcyBM TEMxGzAZBgNVBAMUEmthcmxAZGVubmluZ2VyLm5ldDCCAiIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggIP ADCCAgoCggIBAM2N5maxs7NkoY9g5NMxFWll0TYiO7gXrGZTo3q25ZJgNdPMwrntLz/5ewE9 07TEbwJ3ah/Ep9BfZm7JF9vTtE1HkgKtXNKi0pawNGm1Yn26Dz5AbUr1byby6dFtDJr14E07 trzDCtRRvTkOVSBj6PQPal0fAnDtkIYQBVcuMkXkuMCtyfE95pjm8g4K9l7lAcKii3T1/3rE hCc1o2nBnb7EN1/XwBeCDGB+I2SN/ftZDbKQqGAF5q9dUn+iXU7Z/CVSfUWmhVh6cVZA4Ftv TglUqj410OuPx+cUQch3h1kFgsuhQR63HiJc3HbRJllHsV0rihvL1CjeARQkhnA6uY9NLFST p5I/PfzBzW2MSmtN/tGZvmfKKnmtbfUNgkzbIR1K3lsum+yEL71kB93Xtz/4f1demEx5c8TJ RBIniDHjDeLGK1aoBu8nfnvXAvgthFNTWBOEoR49AHEPjC3kZj0l8JQml1Y8bTQD5gtC5txl klO60WV0EufU7Hy9CmynMuFtjiA2v71pm097rXeCdrAKgisdYeEESB+SFrlY65rLiLv4n8o1 PX7DqRfqKkOYIakZ0ug/yHVKcq2EM3RiJxwzls5gT70CoOBlKbrC98O8TA6teON0Jq30M06t NTI2HhvNbJDLbBH+Awf4h1UKB+0ufENwjVvF5Jfz8Ww/FaSDAgMBAAGjgfQwgfEwNwYIKwYB BQUHAQEEKzApMCcGCCsGAQUFBzABhhtodHRwOi8vY3VkYXN5c3RlbXMubmV0Ojg4ODgwCQYD VR0TBAIwADARBglghkgBhvhCAQEEBAMCBaAwCwYDVR0PBAQDAgXgMCwGCWCGSAGG+EIBDQQf Fh1PcGVuU1NMIEdlbmVyYXRlZCBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZTAdBgNVHQ4EFgQUpfAI3y+751pp9A0w 6vJHx8RoR/MwHwYDVR0jBBgwFoAUJHGbnYV9/N3dvbDKkpQDofrTbTUwHQYDVR0RBBYwFIES a2FybEBkZW5uaW5nZXIubmV0MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAA4ICAQBiB6MlugxYJdccD8boZ/u8 d8VxmLkJCtbfyYHRjYdyoABLW5hE3k3xSpYCM9L7vzWyV/UWwDYKi4ZzxHo4g+jG/GQZfKhx v38BQjL2G9xD0Hn2d+cygOq3UPjVYlbbfQoew6JbyCFXrrZ7/0jvRMLAN2+bRC7ynaFUixPH Whnj9JSH7ieYdzak8KN+G2coIC2t2iyfXVKehzi5gdNQ0vJ7+ypbGsRm4gE8Mdo9N/WgFPvZ HPFqR9Dwas7Z+aHwOabpk5r/336SyjOaZsn3MqKJQZL6GqDKusVOCWt+9uFAD8kadg7FetZe atIoD9I+zbp59oVoMnkMDMx7Hi85faU03csusqMGsjSsAzWSI1N8PJytZlchLiykokLKc3OL G87QKlErotlou7cfPX2BbEAH5wmkj9oiqZhxIL/wwAUA+PkiTbEmksKBNompSjUq/6UsR8EA s74gnu17lmijv8mrg2qMlwRirE7qG8pnE8egLtCDxcjd0Of9WMi2NJskn0/ovC7P+J60Napl m3ZIgPJst1piYSE0Zc1FIat4fFphMfK5v4iLblo1tFSlkdx1UNDGdg/U+LaXkNVXlMp8fyPm R80V6cIrCAlEWnBJNxG1UyfbbsvNMCCZBM4faGGsR/hhQOiydlruxhjL6P8J2WV8p11DdeGx KymWoil2s1J5WTGCBRMwggUPAgEBMIGWMIGQMQswCQYDVQQGEwJVUzEQMA4GA1UECBMHRmxv cmlkYTESMBAGA1UEBxMJTmljZXZpbGxlMRkwFwYDVQQKExBDdWRhIFN5c3RlbXMgTExDMRww GgYDVQQDExNDdWRhIFN5c3RlbXMgTExDIENBMSIwIAYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhNDdWRhIFN5c3Rl bXMgTExDIENBAgE9MA0GCWCGSAFlAwQCAwUAoIICTTAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJKoZIhvcN AQcBMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJBTEPFw0xNzA0MTYxNDI2MTBaME8GCSqGSIb3DQEJBDFCBECqkVwu 6DsiqJp9nZVX3mGZBscCoxBAOLCckBrxZcJQjxvKwwxIMzylQSnQ7G39hYSaCCgQ7pwGVvN0 U/hlnCWGMGwGCSqGSIb3DQEJDzFfMF0wCwYJYIZIAWUDBAEqMAsGCWCGSAFlAwQBAjAKBggq hkiG9w0DBzAOBggqhkiG9w0DAgICAIAwDQYIKoZIhvcNAwICAUAwBwYFKw4DAgcwDQYIKoZI hvcNAwICASgwgacGCSsGAQQBgjcQBDGBmTCBljCBkDELMAkGA1UEBhMCVVMxEDAOBgNVBAgT B0Zsb3JpZGExEjAQBgNVBAcTCU5pY2V2aWxsZTEZMBcGA1UEChMQQ3VkYSBTeXN0ZW1zIExM QzEcMBoGA1UEAxMTQ3VkYSBTeXN0ZW1zIExMQyBDQTEiMCAGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYTQ3VkYSBT eXN0ZW1zIExMQyBDQQIBPTCBqQYLKoZIhvcNAQkQAgsxgZmggZYwgZAxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlVT MRAwDgYDVQQIEwdGbG9yaWRhMRIwEAYDVQQHEwlOaWNldmlsbGUxGTAXBgNVBAoTEEN1ZGEg U3lzdGVtcyBMTEMxHDAaBgNVBAMTE0N1ZGEgU3lzdGVtcyBMTEMgQ0ExIjAgBgkqhkiG9w0B CQEWE0N1ZGEgU3lzdGVtcyBMTEMgQ0ECAT0wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQAEggIAbfgkLOzH+9tt bVmMc9xPweoMI1Rp+SckiDE366oG+28SOiMRAf78mBIZaR9FkEPOm2Ae9ewBhKyc0MJTnaya qjQn/hm6W44VxNgmVA3H9Qtc3TiF5ICCgzVu5kXjylo/2iC0UBERSw350gttAX/i0mj04Sja Fw6IHI45EiUQlOw/cA3Xi8DVne/UP+Pb0vNRjkNDrPsh9sms5egqC8jeIUQWvQj9pmancy0C 3Qa2va3o1qGYwJbF96ho/y0Qr0GrZcS5E7YKoopNqzqyITg2vP5KmQFlTcVfTTiwSXtMVs0R i/Q0ZH9eBHDpRCs6IIKjaw6Gsvpu70FhOFT0FwicZthnGaaXyK5dAq3O+sN6ffsLXRU7og5l g3z7J5Ek8hpwyzsb5opT4ul3PaBatabo9gvoVDieExPNlAXoSg9PBSWoxD6C1nFXl7I/X3Y7 T6QHIWyvsF53kLue4CIKWUri/pLDY1PsK61VUeu5I045qO5I0axrngx6lPCbTFUa3VCgyj0w YkZFxbHOayD/72VBgXti2hy+WLpiH0WMiS6BrFK4T/rqQzsCR+nMt7eAS4FY3gvYosG/aIy4 wKZcYInpBK/uE9M2YWmvPmkkU6MPVtbudQwUCz/7p2uOLQZULRnoZZr/mEDyO5rlv5x7KaKB r70RmZ1v+HaRABc45LjYKawAAAAAAAA= --------------ms040301070301060709040608--
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