From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Feb 18 23:58:59 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37A38106566B; Sat, 18 Feb 2012 23:58:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from superbisquit@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pz0-f54.google.com (mail-pz0-f54.google.com [209.85.210.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05B1B8FC16; Sat, 18 Feb 2012 23:58:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: by daec6 with SMTP id c6so5120427dae.13 for ; Sat, 18 Feb 2012 15:58:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=ubfcBdH/zFGY5jXKVzPEL8CNSy2dKIP308XO37YIHZ4=; b=kSPmI1nf3n+pLQPA8kqK06S1gss5empxLquYASmJp4kB+svcZ80KE3g1apmtCc0V8K FeOhzDTRLwwpcE2z0cPNib79tE0qqP5ijGby7UMZia/N1OAeAZ1KfUA0D9OMbg6GWiFz zWqxabWoQVrG1l0thamnLalRLp3r3QhpGx4Zs= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.211.131 with SMTP id nc3mr36150998pbc.49.1329607739340; Sat, 18 Feb 2012 15:28:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.48.35 with HTTP; Sat, 18 Feb 2012 15:28:59 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20120218221651.GB1240@lonesome.com> References: <20120119005658.218280@gmx.com> <4F19188A.4090907@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <4F213CEB.4020207@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <20120218221651.GB1240@lonesome.com> Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 18:28:59 -0500 Message-ID: From: Super Bisquit To: Mark Linimon Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, linimon@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 23:58:59 -0000 The individual maintainers of each architecture have the right to make a "PRE-RELEASE" of the system at any time. Come to think of it, anyone who can has that right- that is to make a pre-release. On 2/18/12, Mark Linimon wrote: > On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 09:45:47PM +1000, Da Rock wrote: >> 1. Incidentally, what exactly does constitute a major release? > > That point in time where we guarantee that we break a certain degree > of backwards compatibility. (Well, that's the key component. Feature- > additions ride on top of that.) > >> 2. Is there a reason to update the numbers so quickly? > > Yes, so that we don't have to keep supporting backwards compatibility > for as long a period (see 1) -- it's a significant burden to maintain. > It's necessary to do these as we rework things like network layers for > higher performance, rework wireless to work with modern devices, and > other high-demand items. > >> 3. Could a higher bar be set to reach a major release than simply >> temporal objectives? > > Yes. We did that with 5.x, and blew it big-time. The goal of "rewrite > the entire system to support SMP in a scalable, reliable fashion" was > simply too aggressive. It led to ~5 years between major releases, and by > that time the system had changed very dramatically (SMP, suspend/resume, > IIRC GEOM, and too many other things to list). It was a huge jump and > the learning curve for upgrading was way too large. We lost userbase. > > Also, keeping 5 years between major releases led to very high developer > frustration. Why work on something when it will take 4+ years to even > see the light of day? > > This is why we moved to the time-based releases. 18 months was seen as > a compromise between all the various demands. Even so, we are almost > exactly at 24 months in practice; see the graphs I updated last month as > a result of all the recent discussion: > > http://people.freebsd.org/~linimon/schedule/ > > My own view is that 5 years between major releases is not going to happen, > due to how painful the 5.x experience was for all concerned. But as I'm > not a src committer, I'm not one of the people who will be picking the > interval for our major-branch timeline. I just try to graph it as it > goes by. > > mcl > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >