From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Apr 22 16:18:03 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB5AE2B91D4 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 16:18:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c100035eba13.e91c7ec82d0774a6ecb08e0d3bf39f88@email-od.com) Received: from s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com (s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com [142.0.176.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 496lwB2gGRz4S5g for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 16:18:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c100035eba13.e91c7ec82d0774a6ecb08e0d3bf39f88@email-od.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=email-od.com;i=@email-od.com;s=dkim; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; t=1587572282; x=1590164282; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:x-thread-info; bh=Y0tim9vJBaoBTNpCale+cGmUWPRgL2/VL/t3YIDEvU0=; b=AQutoSY/2Bq7bd5+/myBpInnihGLDJEDod0LVILVVvH/Eh+Fad2N1hMt8eyxR/t8FUxafFOn6DsaS5dV9m0Hyi35cfHp9UmqY9fBjZitVcjgp2cG8WaWLlCh9+ln70nAvSUBaiFdgyjdcLSgmDRtlL7fQBsvYGyg2QT4CKvJX3A= X-Thread-Info: NDI1MC45Mi4xZDRjMTAwMDM1ZWJhMTMuZnJlZWJzZC1xdWVzdGlvbnM9ZnJlZWJzZC5vcmc= Received: from r2.sg.in.socketlabs.com (r2.sg.in.socketlabs.com [142.0.179.12]) by mxsg2.email-od.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Wed, 22 Apr 2020 12:17:57 -0400 Received: from smtp.lan.sohara.org (EMTPY [185.202.17.215]) by r2.sg.in.socketlabs.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Wed, 22 Apr 2020 12:17:53 -0400 Received: from [192.168.63.1] (helo=steve.lan.sohara.org) by smtp.lan.sohara.org with smtp (Exim 4.92.3 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1jRI4N-000IEk-JX; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 17:17:51 +0100 Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 17:17:51 +0100 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith To: Robert Huff Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Wayland on FreeBSD Message-Id: <20200422171751.e85396afb993a0c61a248565@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: <24224.26111.448437.531092@jerusalem.litteratus.org> References: <5058973.kMyvyFPq5o@amos> <20200421150741.28dd6309.freebsd@edvax.de> <24223.11679.688616.192643@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <20200422023243.GA81187@neutralgood.org> <20200422070028.30dd2fb16ccae9b6d9cde901@sohara.org> <24224.11002.960241.607629@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <20200422124356.5329c504e03524a59b536cc6@sohara.org> <24224.26111.448437.531092@jerusalem.litteratus.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 496lwB2gGRz4S5g X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=email-od.com header.s=dkim header.b=AQutoSY/; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 4250.82.1d4c100035eba13.e91c7ec82d0774a6ecb08e0d3bf39f88@email-od.com designates 142.0.176.198 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=4250.82.1d4c100035eba13.e91c7ec82d0774a6ecb08e0d3bf39f88@email-od.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.63 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.97)[-0.974,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[email-od.com:s=dkim]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:142.0.176.0/20]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sohara.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.992,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[email-od.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[198.176.0.142.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.15.0]; IP_SCORE(0.03)[ip: (-0.22), ipnet: 142.0.176.0/22(0.32), asn: 7381(0.12), country: US(-0.05)]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c100035eba13.e91c7ec82d0774a6ecb08e0d3bf39f88@email-od.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7381, ipnet:142.0.176.0/22, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c100035eba13.e91c7ec82d0774a6ecb08e0d3bf39f88@email-od.com]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 16:18:03 -0000 On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 11:42:55 -0400 Robert Huff wrote: > > Steve O'Hara-Smith writes: > > > > Am I not understanding. or does that sound slow and full of > > > possible failure modes? > > > > It does to me, but I know little to nothing of the innermost > > details. I've looked into Wayland a few times in fair detail and > > have yet to see a benefit. I know X is decried as a security horror > > story, yet active exploits seem curiously rare and it has always > > worked well for me. > > I generally hear three main criticisms: > 1) Full of known/possible exploits and security holes Which never seem to actually cause problems, usually because they're a bit like the cluttered desk and safe with post-it that would be a security problem were they not inside an access controlled area with tight security. > 2) Based on 1980s concepts and hardware (which affects what code > is written and how) Hmm unix is based on 1970s concepts and 1960s hardware, it seems to have aged well. Like X it has accumulated some (nearly) obsolete layers like the incredible range of dumb terminal (mis)designs that curses can cope with and the enormous termcap/terminfo database of capabilities and quirks that drives it. I've seen complaints about the baggage of 1980s style graphics primitives (stippled polygon fills etc.) and fonts which are valid I suppose but it doesn't seem to have got in the way of adding GPU supported acceleration or anti-aliased outline fonts. > 3) "It just grew." (Which contributes to (1).) That I'd have to disagree with, the gap betweem X11Rn and X11Rn+1 was always long and seemed to involve considerable care and there has never been an X12 (despite getting to X11 between 1984 and 1987). -- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/