From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Wed Apr 20 03:57:53 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DFE4B15A62 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2016 03:57:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gjb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206c::16:87]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EEA61981; Wed, 20 Apr 2016 03:57:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gjb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from FreeBSD.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206c::16:87]) by freefall.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24F4A11CA; Wed, 20 Apr 2016 03:57:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gjb@FreeBSD.org) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 03:57:50 +0000 From: Glen Barber To: Warner Losh Cc: Matthew Grooms , freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [CFT] packaging the base system with pkg(8) Message-ID: <20160420035750.GK1554@FreeBSD.org> References: <76093.1461096570@critter.freebsd.dk> <5716AD65.8070007@shrew.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="NOC/txXbandKISI8" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 11.0-CURRENT amd64 X-SCUD-Definition: Sudden Completely Unexpected Dataloss X-SULE-Definition: Sudden Unexpected Learning Event X-PEKBAC-Definition: Problem Exists, Keyboard Between Admin/Computer User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 03:57:53 -0000 --NOC/txXbandKISI8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 09:15:47PM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: >=20 > > On Apr 19, 2016, at 4:12 PM, Matthew Grooms wrote: > >=20 > > On 4/19/2016 3:09 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > >> As far as I know, nobody is taking the source code or the Makefiles > >> away, so if somebody doesn't like the system being distributed with > >> pkg, they can very well roll their own. > >>=20 > >> It's nice to see the level of enthusiasm the FreeBSD project can > >> muster, I just wish it wasn't always enthusiasm for stopping progress. > >>=20 > >=20 > > Maybe I missed an email in this thread, but I don't recall > > anyone completely rejecting the idea of packaging the base system. > > What I see is a discussion related to doing it in the best way > > possible. >=20 > Sadly the tenor and tone of the discussion isn=E2=80=99t one where progre= ss > is made. The tone has been a bit toxic and demanding, which grinds > people into dust, rather than motivating them to fix things. You > might call it a discussion, but it reads to me more as a bunch of > angry villagers storming the castle. No good can come from that. > Tone down the outrage by a factor of 100 and try to have the > conversation again. >=20 As probably the most demotivated person to read through this onslaught of nonsense, I cannot agree more. Glen --NOC/txXbandKISI8 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJXFv46AAoJEAMUWKVHj+KT25MP/3GnBZeIVB6Kw+EVzY3MuU+d fnVfgLHeTU5rZgnttVo3eZ5VTSFiGBoNl/A6prGiuIrwKXIg5UAzdMa+yVIEHE3s xxi5sl+LsYy1FX8FeJ1UDWGBsg89aUwQUHQt2g11T1DlF2cVnCRqWIbJtRsF+Bto 4HjVM0P6h94kIsxOmILkD3j2Bfc9vV3euwyVVbcZFr2CQcGKfN2wiAPedWeb0mfg qAOYBC/nvPWbWto3+U+AUpAnEBXOMOjOaMHiwaYd8Ym7afevYtCq5SwC+/dkP+aN nKnkYyLRO0im6jKxzairc25ZnmdiIZN6x3YtcLTRRqX4E2PYOIh/IXp5mHJ0fH7G nHrcP9xJPAQPzYwVFfNpPI8Gtkf7yij9ysas73tXn/FgGzN8f7ENyvRwERy9yQsZ nIkioljIkwrc1tXRAQz7VW79eVpynY7vhsjCgTXsdj8uMV2JTnS6JyeoFQVaqEfh guKYAkhqfsWEpX81k+c5LDrWKOL31ZAFZ3DXz2neUMvLZo3SKs6WXOSffcFjfHWT c4wuyBwJ61O/yhlsuegRjpPxRCweX12InlSFGVfV7YkfDXSzVT6xMeqQtbLGT2r9 aV53+jCgXd5HMEcDoP17/dAUKDj03Tjp+rwo+94dynzkPY4xaeH/aQnUQySBv4Pc P6MxFFwLKfEVEBObYT7C =ojLo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --NOC/txXbandKISI8--