From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Jan 23 00:07:12 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDE4D222DDA for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2020 00:07:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from woodsb02@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vs1-xe32.google.com (mail-vs1-xe32.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e32]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4832dW6lsvz3Dhy; Thu, 23 Jan 2020 00:07:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from woodsb02@gmail.com) Received: by mail-vs1-xe32.google.com with SMTP id t12so602933vso.13; Wed, 22 Jan 2020 16:07:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=mTGssJu4JzdcRNSWAUamoTSjCrgepl/wRMhOiHTbmUo=; b=S89rpEoV3KCcmjMiF4K/HHThSWbaIPlI8U9Y2gPsDHBdnz+KNuI1v0rwx17IUXnE8F UE4G+GVWS1J/rnKdKj7y7ks5Krg3YCeTF0AoTM3OR+1lSxhFBfoiH26sL0pFINlu3om0 2X2imhLdixWWt8utjblUbb4D1loYg8ab+xQSCU3I3etyZAPshLhtwINBKlT0EcIV3Mu9 Oy4nxflE/+gCLNVgYq7Y3lHJppUokyJaan/zmRA/Dk5G3iwGOLECtTEGDSBsgrDvyUZt LkRlIqdu1hlSCbcO/1bf8oXTdIj5kB+uBujnv7Bn2iLsle9yQsHtQS1YXN7oDVYcVdHq h4UA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=mTGssJu4JzdcRNSWAUamoTSjCrgepl/wRMhOiHTbmUo=; b=sf9IhKQ+m0+Z4YJXkORkXG0OEll23ZZXjgfhwLFtJqR/7AWs4d4mw7xUJWG9zzvnRB zvX6U6bFqTsugJDi6oHVF0ng8teLpz94K2/WfXXbZVkbm6G3pGn1TFsO5F8yYMTjnWG1 7I9k+08R/zzI+EIjWAHaGhvxSPaBrDC5BXEzTm9mxVeUftg9vDvXuMeogKhJmJH0VKQh XQN8CaFUfYjQXZ1Zht8NEuc9tmczMAESo+LT6GHkuM3RHzGPQbRJBMi389J9dscyjlad tWEomuZMmYGRSyvs8yHdXGUiT/gkoqfmrubYsZjssQ95P8GNabs53eww7D/AeeOtvOS8 MLVQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWbqLurtEvf+5hWtmszlnOQB44DALX1y98Ih7DgH9dCHFZE+9dm xVU0K6fH44mpINey9iVmPzmt6aGCQ3unZn2k9qAoYvTf X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzrRGGrxIhPOr+uBuTesCS9MB+86mSMEZpZitEHmYR+yLAF+stUWD2pdK4KiQzpJhiW0appUbRWa+X6fGg5RKA= X-Received: by 2002:a67:f98e:: with SMTP id b14mr4476604vsq.53.1579738030794; Wed, 22 Jan 2020 16:07:10 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202001180116.00I1G705020955@mail.karels.net> In-Reply-To: <202001180116.00I1G705020955@mail.karels.net> From: Ben Woods Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2020 08:06:59 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: svn commit: r356758 - in head/usr.sbin/bsdinstall: . scripts To: mike@karels.net Cc: Philip Paeps , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, Conrad Meyer , Ed Maste X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4832dW6lsvz3Dhy X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=S89rpEoV; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of woodsb02@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::e32 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=woodsb02@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.00 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (-9.49), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.07), asn: 15169(-1.82), country: US(-0.05)]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; URI_COUNT_ODD(1.00)[3]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2.3.e.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2020 00:07:13 -0000 On Sat, 18 Jan 2020 at 09:16, Mike Karels wrote: > > On Fri, 17 Jan 2020 at 08:21, Ben Woods wrote: > > > > Perhaps we could simply include a message on that bsdinstall > partitioning > > > mode selection screen that UFS is recommended on systems with < 4 Gb > RAM? > > > > > > I have uploaded a diff for this here: https://reviews.freebsd.org/D23224 > > > Please let me know your thoughts (comments in the phabricator review > would > > be best). > > I think this needs more discussion, preferably on this list. I am not > convinced that systems with as little as 4 GB should use ZFS. Conventional > wisdom on the FreeNAS mailing list says that 8 GB is required for ZFS, > and FreeNAS no longer includes UFS as an option. Conrad suggested a > cutoff of 16 GB; I am happier with 16 GB than 4 GB as a cutoff. Also, > there was mention of auto-tuning for smaller systems; I don't think that > has materialized yet. I'm not sure how plausible that is without knowing > the workload. I use ZFS on a workstation/server with 64 GB that runs 4 > bhyve guests that do things like buildworld. ZFS wants 63 GB for arc_max; > needless to say, I have a tunable set to a much lower value. If tuning > is required, it is unclear that ZFS is a good default. > > Mike > Hi everyone, Before I commit phabricator review D23224, is there any final comments? Particularly on these 2 lines of help-text: msg_partitioning_zfs_help="ZFS is recommended if you have at least 4GB RAM" msg_partitioning_ufs_help="UFS is recommended if you have less than 4GB of RAM" There is some disagree about what these 2 recommendations should be. 4GB was recommended by: imp, emaste, philip, eugen, dteske 8GB was recommended by: mike 16GB was recommended by: cem The 4GB limit seems to have the best consensus, however there was some debate about whether ZFS is recommended on a system with 4GB, or only systems with MORE THAN 4GB. As for the ZFS auto-tuning, I see that as being a separate discussion (which could ultimately change this recommendation, but shouldn't prevent us from committing this help text now). Regards, Ben -- From: Benjamin Woods woodsb02@gmail.com