From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 21 08:14:21 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B4D21CC6; Tue, 21 Oct 2014 08:14:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from theravensnest.org (theraven.freebsd.your.org [216.14.102.27]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "cloud.theravensnest.org", Issuer "StartCom Class 1 Primary Intermediate Server CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8AC8E3EB; Tue, 21 Oct 2014 08:14:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.0.106] (cpc14-cmbg15-2-0-cust307.5-4.cable.virginm.net [82.26.1.52]) (authenticated bits=0) by theravensnest.org (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id s9L8EDY6099509 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 21 Oct 2014 08:14:19 GMT (envelope-from theraven@FreeBSD.org) X-Authentication-Warning: theravensnest.org: Host cpc14-cmbg15-2-0-cust307.5-4.cable.virginm.net [82.26.1.52] claimed to be [192.168.0.106] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) Subject: Re: HOWTO articles for migrating from Linux to FreeBSD, especially for pkg? From: David Chisnall In-Reply-To: <20141020231526.GO6490@blisses.org> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 09:14:07 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <2F4335C6-31F3-46C8-AEB9-3D615E305C48@FreeBSD.org> References: <20140811221043.492110d4@arch> <20140813213718.4814f58c@arch> <53EC1214.9020505@pinyon.org> <20141018121150.5aae6682@X220.alogt.com> <20141018145857.c17931841923f39c79464033@dec.sakura.ne.jp> <20141020183253.GE6490@blisses.org> <5837e41bf824926f9c49325e1817aec8@ultimatedns.net> <54458B06.5050301@freebsd.org> <20141020231526.GO6490@blisses.org> To: Mason Loring Bliss X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Allan Jude X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 08:14:21 -0000 On 21 Oct 2014, at 00:15, Mason Loring Bliss wrote: > The second thing that would be useful would be a series of cheat = sheets for > various things. This can either be equivalent commands or equivalent = systems. > Let new folks know that LUKS is GELI and that md-raid1 is gmirror and = so > forth. Show common package handling commands for various Linux = flavours and > map them to pkgng and ports. For instance, what's the equivalent of = "yum > provides"? Or what do I do in place of "apt-cache search" or "zypper = up" or > similar. I agree that this would be useful, but it requires someone familiar with = both systems to write. Perhaps you could help by coming up with a list = of things that you did frequently with Debian and a description of what = they did, then someone more familiar with the FreeBSD side can help fill = in any gaps where you haven't yet worked out what the FreeBSD equivalent = is (or, if there isn't a FreeBSD equivalent, then we have a useful = feature request). > Other things in the grab bag... It's generally said that ports and = pkgs > shouldn't mix, but there are at least a couple instances where it's > unavoidable: >=20 > I bet roughly no one who installs Subversion wants the FreeBSD bug = report > headers baked in by default, but there they are unless you rebuild = from ports > with a non-default configuration. It's worth noting that the FreeBSD headers don't affect operation. = Subversion only adds the headers to the commit message if they're = modified. I think that the fix for this is to add a line at the top = saying # Things below this line are only included if modified I find that I do occasionally use those in other projects. > If you want to watch DVDs on your FreeBSD workstation, it's necessary = to > install libdvdcss, but you can't get it from pkgng because it's not = there. > Again, you must build from ports. Really? I've installed vlc from packages and it seems able to play = DVDs. I don't remember having to do anything special. Perhaps I had an = old version of libdecss installed. I thought that CSS had been ruled = not to be an 'effective copyright protection mechanism' in the US, so = wasn't covered by the DMCA anymore. > I have nothing against ports, but people are warned off of mixing = packages > and ports when clearly it's necessary sometimes. >=20 > Oh, here's one. I *was* horrified by ports at first, until someone = told me > about "make config-recursive". It really makes me wonder why this = isn't the > default. I remember giving up on FreeBSD when 9.x was new because I = had to > build X from ports after the FreeBSD breach, and it seemed like the = process > was going to take a couple days of stuttering stops and starts as = random > packages I didn't want in some cases popped up between compiles. I = learned > some mechanism for saying "just take the defaults" but what I know now = is > that what I really wanted was "make config-recursive". Why, out of = curiosity, > is it not the default? That would seem better than documenting it = harder. The recommended way of building packages now is to use Poudriere. The = Poudriere section in the handbook is still very new and contributions = are *very* welcome. I think that having an example of 'how to build = libdecss from ports' there might be a good idea. There is a plan that each package set should come with a package = containing the matching ports tree, so that you can build package from = ports that are compatible with the binary ones. That should make a lot = of this easier. I think the two cases for Poudriere that need to be in the handbook are: - How to build a few custom packages but mostly use upstream for an = individual - How to build a local package repository for your organisation with a = load of custom config options for packages built from ports and some = custom local-only ports > Ah, and one more for the grab bag. I strongly suspect that many folks = coming > from Linux are going to bristle at the notion of using Sendmail. I = used to > run it so I wasn't terribly bothered by it, but maybe pre-populating = rc.conf > with obvious bits that people can see and turn off would be nice. = OpenBSD has > a nice model of populating rc.conf and sysctl.conf fully, and it ends = up > being a pleasant tool. Those awash in wonder, coming from Linux, can = say, > "Look, it's all right here!" We put those things in /etc/defaults/rc.conf, which makes merges easier = on upgrade: the user doesn't touch /etc/defaults/rc.conf and the update = tool doesn't touch /etc/rc.conf. Again, if the handbook doesn't tell = you to look in /etc/defaults/rc.conf then that's an oversight that we = should fix. It might be a good idea to move this thread to the -docs mailing list, = as it seems to have identified a number of shortcomings in our = documentation and it would be a good idea to try to find some docs = people willing to help get them fixed. David