Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 22:49:38 +1100 From: Sue Blake <sue@welearn.com.au> To: Duncan Barclay <dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk> Cc: "freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG" <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG> Subject: Re: FW: One step forward.... Message-ID: <19980328224937.36797@welearn.com.au> In-Reply-To: <XFMail.980327223334.dmlb@computer.my.domain>; from Duncan Barclay on Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 10:33:34PM -0000 References: <19980328074141.56389@welearn.com.au> <XFMail.980327223334.dmlb@computer.my.domain>
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On Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 10:33:34PM -0000, Duncan Barclay wrote:
>
> On 27-Mar-98 Sue Blake wrote:
> > On Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 08:56:00AM -0800, John M. Purser wrote:
> >> On Friday, March 27, 1998 8:21 AM, Duncan Barclay
> >> [SMTP:dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk] wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hi John,
> >> >
> >> > Hope you -newbies don't mind me (been around FreeBSD a few years)
> >> > helping out?
> >
> >> Mind? Hell no bud! If you've got the patience and have worked out these
> >> thing
> >> before then speak up!
> >
> >
> > ... but PLEASE always move your conversation to freebsd-questions if the
> > matter is at all suitable for that mailing list. Answers to questions,
> > solutions to problems at any level belong on -questions where others can see
> > them.
>
> I was a bit unsure about answering directly and nearly email you for
> "permission" (guidance really). I guess the best is a direct reply and
> cc: to -questions (which I don't read).
I'm not sure whether that was supposed to say -questions or -newbies?
> > I'm not so much worried about this one specific conversation but if I don't
> > respond loudly to the above comments, others will take it as being open
> > season.
> >
> > Anything that covers "how to go about learning" rather than "how to fix the
> > problem" sits well in a newbies-only environment, *because* newbies can
> > fairly safely help each other on that without being pre-empted by more
> > advanced users.
> >
>
> Out of interest, how do you think things are shaking out?
Well it seems like the other newbies are getting something out of it, but
that's really for them to decide.
> The list has been up for a few days now and it seems to be attracting the
> target audience. I wonder if it is worth you creating a few standard
> replies to the common problems (to save you typing the same things dozens
> of times!).
Actually now that you mention it :-) A weekly posting is due to go out today.
A few people have been suggesting the kind of information they'd like to see
distributed regularly, but since it was in private mail we haven't discussed
it much yet. It's a lot easier to say what you want after there's something
to start from. We'll see what sort of feedback the first one brings.
> The list below is really what you already manage to handle
> (very patiently too!)
>
> - email formatting, and why it should be so.
I think Greg Lehey's document has that pretty much covered. We should be
working towards what is expected on the other lists so it makes sense to use
that one. If there's call for a slower more step by step intro we might take
a look at doing that soon.
> - questions vs. learning/hey I did this...
It could be worth thinking some more about that one too.
The "hey I did this" does seem to be popular, this week at least.
> - maybe a documentation reminder listing not only the
> manpages, FAQ, handbook and tutorials but other things.
That's largely covered in the regular posting, and the rest will be on our
resource list which should have some shape to it within a week from now.
> - a note saying don't be afraid to say to use ee and other
> "simple" tools, that's why they are there.
Oh really? You mean it is OK to admit to using them? :-)
> A historic
> note: every now and then a debate on -hackers starts up
> on the benefits of ee and most of -core stick up for it as they
> see it as the best for the job (new users, commands shown on screen,
> and small enough to fit into the boot/install floppies).
>
> The third one could be set up as an auto responder to people posting to the
> list for the first time (procmail I guess).
It would probably be easier done with majordomo in our case, but it's not a
bad idea. If the regular posting and the resource list aren't enough we could
consider falling back on something like that.
Another thing we need help on is the technique of framing questions well.
The difference between a well worded question and one that's almost
impossible to answer is very obvious to those who do the answering. If it
were so obvious to us we wouldn't be writing bad ones, would we! :-)
That's the sort of thing that can only be learned through studying lots of
examples and doing lots of practice. How we'd do that here or in a document
I'm not real sure yet, but I'm working on it :-)
Thanks for the suggestions!
--
Regards,
-*Sue*-
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